HTOTM: FUSION
Original Post
A rant about quitters, and other types of phaliure...
I know there are already 8,434,976,685,012 threads about quitters and /speccers , but this is partly a question, and partly a suggestion, as it's just got ridiculous. I get quit on in at least 1 in 10 matches against people who i dont know, and even though it counts as a win, it's just the kinda thing that gets me pissed off .

I understand that some people have connection problems, but that comes up as "connection lost", or "ping timeout". I'm sure ppl can fake these problems too, but that would be a much smaller group than the current quitter population.

Answered. Thank you.

I know this has come up before thousands of times, but there really needs to be a proper blacklist of frequent quitters, and a tag, kinda like the mod/oldschooler tags, which shows up as a symbol next to their name ingame so everyone knows how much they phail.

The other thing that really pisses me off is ppl who open 2-3 toribash windows and wait in multiple servers for their turn. This means that everyone else has to wait longer to play. If everyone did this, then the queues everywhere would be stupidly long. Can this be fixed somehow, so ppl can only connect to one server at a time ?

well, that's my rant over.
Last edited by H4rl3quin; Apr 17, 2008 at 12:00 AM. Reason: edited so Littodude can read it. Phaliures removed from post.
...Whaaaat?

Try to correct the spelling mistakes, because it really makes it annoying to try to read anything.

Stop complaining about quitters, you can't change it, and they won't stop.

Mmkay?
Hi H4rl3quin. In your spirit, I'd like to rant about the "phailure to spell correctly."

I want to chime in about disconnects, because it's a common issue for all online games. I've been active at FICS for 10 years, which is chess. Nobody (at least <10% certainly) plays long rated chess games there because nobody wants to waste an hour or two creating a masterpiece that will never be satisfactorily completed. At FICS, they have an nice system which has evolved for two decades.

First of all, if you want customers (whether paying or potentially paying), an organization will not prevent any but the worst behaved from playing. FICS tags people as an "abuser" for whatever violation, and will temporarily ban people for more severe breeches. But disconnectors are still allowed to play -- it's up to the opponents to ensure their account variable includes not playing abusers. The fact is, the only reason FICS adminstrates disconnectors at all, in my experience, is because they care about the validity of the rating pool. They do care about the serious players feelings, but that's actually trival. If users can't complain bout disconnecting, then they'll still complain about sandbagging. If they can't complain about sandbagging, They'll complain about the language. Or the kibitzers. Or the team collusion. The list is endless.

Secondly, You need a staff to administrate. I understand that Toribash is still a one man operation. At this stage, I imagine he has higher priorities than administratively hearing online behavior issues. Someone needs to judge each complaint, because many complaints will not be valid. (When we get really upset about all these disconnectors, it common that the next thing we immediately report the next person that does so -- and it's been made clear to me a couple times over the years that I've filed complaints about unpreventable circumstances.) I'm just saying that an automated system that doesn't have to be humanly administrated is a bad idea. Until Toribash has a staff, I would vote for many other features before ever seriously consider disconnection.

Third, as implied, there's nothing that can be done about it yet. Want to ban "McCrea"? I'll be back as RobMcCrea. Oh wait, you banned my variable IP block? You just banned everyone in my town with cable. Want to ban my MAC address, that's no prob, I've got a drawer full of NICs.

I would like to offer my sympathy, but all I can offer is: just be glad you're not playing chess where it takes two hours to get an interesting battle going. I love high level chess, but I haven't played anything but speed chess in maybe 5 years because of the nature of the Internet. We all get furious with wasted time and effort. But that is the online world for every case I know of. Again, FICS has the best implementation I've seen. (Maybe their commercial competitor is better, who based their system directly on FICS', so I guess I should say best free system.)

About the second issue: I agree with queue abuse being a potential problem, although I don't think it's a huge issue -- if it's to their advantage, then the rest of us will just have to do it too. Perhaps I lack the experience, though, I'm sure you've been around longer than I have.

Actually, I would propose a different system than queuing, such as an automated-acceptance match based system with a manual option, used by most two player game servers: Chess, backgammon, whatever, whether FICS, Yahoo, Chessmaster, or whatever. Player posts a seek: perhaps judo mod, 45-60 frame interval, 300-600 frame limit, blue belt or higher, no DQ, and as many other variable as possible.

So, right there's at least one large feature I'd prefer before worrying about disconnectors. And there's a quite a few direct game enhancing features I'd like to see before a match-based pairing system. Like using my mouse to end my turn, so my mouse can provide all required input. (which isn't actually the request, the request would be for fully customizable input -- I'd like to use my X-BOX controller probably. But the mouse for space would be quick fix.) Oh, and probably a small part of the disconnect problem is that /sp is not obvious to noobs like me. I spent the first two days disconnecting before my turn and reconnecting just to watch until I noticed the spectator list and investigated.

Anyway, cya online. Try not to let THEM bother you. One of THEM told me to type "/special" when I was next in line. Yep, I'd cripple him if I could, but I can't so I'll just be happy with life anyway. Oh, the spambots too. Log on, pitch your website, logout. Forget about em.
Last edited by McCrea; Apr 16, 2008 at 10:30 PM.
Originally Posted by McCrea View Post
Hi H4rl3quin. In your spirit, I'd like to rant about the "phailure to spell correctly."

I want to chime in about disconnects, because it's a common issue for all online games. I've been active at FICS for 10 years, which is chess. Nobody (at least <10% certainly) plays long rated chess games there because nobody wants to waste an hour or two creating a masterpiece that will never be satisfactorily completed. At FICS, they have an nice system which has evolved for two decades.

First of all, if you want customers (whether paying or not), an organization will not prevent any but the worst behaved from playing. They tag people as an "abuser" for whatever violation, and will temporarily ban people for more severe breeches. But disconnectors are still allowed to play -- it's up to the opponents to ensure their account variable includes not playing abusers. The fact is, the only reason FICS adminstrates disconnectors at all, in my experience, is because they care about the validity of the rating pool. They do care about the serious players feelings, but that's actually trival. If users can't complain bout disconnecting, then they'll still complain about sandbagging. If they can't complain about sandbagging, They'll complain about the language. Or the kibitzers. Or the team collusion. The list is endless.

Secondly, You need a staff to administrate. I understand that Toribash is still a one man operation. At this stage, I imagine he has higher priorities than administratively hearing online behavior issues. Someone needs to judge each complaint, because many complaints will not be valid. (When we get really upset about all these disconnectors, it common that the next thing we immediately report the next person that does so -- and it's been made clear to me a couple times over the years that I've filed complaints about unpreventable circumstances.) I'm just saying that an automated system that doesn't have to be humanly administrated is a bad idea. Until Toribash has a staff, I would vote for many other features before ever seriously consider disconnection.

Third, as implied, there's nothing that can be done about it yet. Want to ban "McCrea"? I'll be back as RobMcCrea. Oh wait, you banned my variable IP block? You just banned everyone in my town with cable. Want to ban my MAC address, that's no prob, I've got a drawer full of NICs.

I would like to offer my sympathy, but all I can offer is: just be glad you're not playing chess where it takes two hours to get an interesting battle going. I love high level chess, but I haven't played anything but speed chess in maybe 5 years because of the nature of the Internet. We all get furious with wasted time and effort. But that is the online world for every case I know of. Again, FICS has the best implementation I've seen. (Maybe their commercial competitor is better, who based their system directly on FICS', so I guess I should say best free system.)

Sounds pretty good, and you spell right so there is a thumbs up.

Originally Posted by McCrea View Post
About the second issue: I agree with queue abuse being a potential problem, although I don't think it's a huge issue -- if it's to their advantage, then the rest of us will just have to do it too. Perhaps I lack the experience, though, I'm sure you've been around longer than I have.

Queue "abuse" isn't against the rules so there is no problem here.


Originally Posted by McCrea View Post
Actually, I would propose a different system than queuing, such as an automated-acceptance match based system with a manual option, used by most two player game servers: Chess, backgammon, whatever, whether FICS, Yahoo, Chessmaster, or whatever. Player posts a seek: perhaps judo mod, 45-60 frame interval, 300-600 frame limit, blue belt or higher, no DQ, and as many other variable as possible.

Only problem with this is that it would take away the friends list because you can't go into a server with a friend if there are no servers. Also you wouldn't be able to search to see if someone is online, or see what server they are in. The servers would be gone which would make Hampa redo a lot of stuff and send TC back tp people and the clans would have to give back the money that was spent to get a server you couldn't get diffrent mods unless you had rooms for each and every mod available which in the end is more rooms than needed.

Originally Posted by McCrea View Post
Anyway, cya online. Try not to let THEM bother you. One of THEM told me to type "/special" when I was next in line. Yep, I'd cripple him if I could, but I can't so I'll just be happy with life anyway. Oh, the spambots too. Log on, ptich your website, logout. Forget about em.

Like he said just shake them off and forget about it.
Originally Posted by McCrea View Post
Actually, I would propose a different system than queuing, such as an automated-acceptance match based system with a manual option, used by most two player game servers: Chess, backgammon, whatever, whether FICS, Yahoo, Chessmaster, or whatever. Player posts a seek: perhaps judo mod, 45-60 frame interval, 300-600 frame limit, blue belt or higher, no DQ, and as many other variable as possible.

Yeah there could still be servers, but then maybe some little sub-servers.

I hate it when I do an epic, 3000-matchframe, 20-turnframe battle, like one time in Allywayfight, and the guy quit on the last turn, but otherwise I'm okay.

I suggest maybe, you can quit for the first couple minutes or so, but after that you have to wait 'till the end.
On 18, 2008 of the year August, we shall have tea. The following day we eat anyone wearing purple clothes. Then we get into tanks, drive a mile away from each other, and start firing random shells into the air. First one to hit the other tank gets a 5 second head start in the 1 legged race.

In the one legged race, you will be hogtied and forced to compete in the Boston marathon using your penis only. We shall also set down bear traps, landmines, barbed wire, and floating thumbs. Your penis will be painted to resemble an illusion that looks like a 3-D steak; as a result, several Dobermen and Rottweilers we will be taking for a walk that morning which have been starved the previous week may attack.
Originally Posted by grumpyman2 View Post
Yeah there could still be servers, but then maybe some little sub-servers.

Yeah, I did not intend to imply eliminating servers. I meant to state that developing such a robust system is a huge chore.
Actually, a match based system, rather than the existing "king of the hill system" is practically mandatory. Currently it's not exactly a queue system. In a queue system, everyone would get the same number of games. In the existing system, a fortunate player conceptionally could play an infinite number of games in a row, as long as he keeps winning. The system could fail if there was ever a successful cheater. I won't go into details here, since I've already give someone a malicious idea, I'm sure.

I'll try to submit an essay to the suggestion forum or the master himself, but I've already wasted too much time today.
Last edited by McCrea; Apr 16, 2008 at 10:37 PM.
Originally Posted by H4rl3quin View Post
I know there are already 8,434,976,685,012 threads about quitters ans /speccers

Wrong not many people care about quitters and speccers. (even though there are alot(lol peckers))

Originally Posted by H4rl3quin View Post
but this is partly a question, and partly a suggestion

Then why isn't in a suggestion thread or wibbles or discussion. Game is for replays and stuff about replays, not rants that nobody cares about.


Originally Posted by H4rl3quin View Post
even though it caounts as a win

It doesn't count as a win it just is like it never happens. Get your facts right, and COUNTS.

Originally Posted by H4rl3quin View Post
And i know this has come up before thousands of times, but there really needs to be a proper blacklist of frequent quitters, and a tag, kinda like the mod/oldschooler tags, which shows up as a symbol next to their name ingame so everyone knows how much they phail.

They don't fail because they quit. Some people have to go in the middle of a match because of something or other. Also the "Black list" come on that is just a waste of time and more stuff for Nabi and Hampa to do.

Originally Posted by H4rl3quin View Post
The other thing that really pisses me off is ppl who open 2-3 toribash windows and wait in multiple servers for their turn. This means that everyone else has to wait longer to play. If everyone did this, the the queues everywhere would be stupidly long. Can this be fixed somehow, so ppl can only connect to one server at a time ?

I haven't seen anyone do this and how would you know unless they you were doing it to on more than one server. Also the queues are already really long but stop complaining.

kthnxbai
AwsomeO, since you took the time out of your day to review my post, i'll repay the favour.

Originally Posted by AwesomeO View Post
Wrong not many people care about quitters and speccers. (even though there are alot(lol peckers))

You may want to read this . some people do actually care about this,

http://forum.toribash.com/showthread...light=quitters



Originally Posted by AwesomeO View Post
Then why isn't in a suggestion thread or wibbles or discussion. Game is for replays and stuff about replays, not rants that nobody cares about.

Because i couldnt decide where to put it, to be honest, and sinceone of the topics in "the game" in "multiplayer", it's appropriate enough. Stop trying to be a mini mod.

You cared enough to make this long reply.


Originally Posted by AwesomeO View Post
It doesn't count as a win it just is like it never happens. Get your facts right, and COUNTS.

tbh, that just kinda reinforces my point. That makes it even more annoying when you dont even get the win. And read the above thread. It disagrees with you (if the game rules have changed since then i apologise).

And it's called a typo. Typo's and spelling mistakes are different things. Get your facts right...


Originally Posted by AwesomeO View Post
They don't fail because they quit. Some people have to go in the middle of a match because of something or other. Also the "Black list" come on that is just a waste of time and more stuff for Nabi and Hampa to do.

Read my post. I allowed for people with connection problems, and anything else, you can probably just go akf, which wastes a few seconds of time when you get afk kicked on your next turn.

Nabi wouldnt have to personally manage it. A bit of coding logging peoples' voluntary disconnects mid game would do that fine, flagging people who did it regularly.


Originally Posted by AwesomeO View Post
I haven't seen anyone do this and how would you know unless they you were doing it to on more than one server. Also the queues are already really long but stop complaining.

I would know, by scrolling down the servers and seeing the same name repeatedly. Please think before you type. If you havent seen anyone do it then that's great. But it dosent mean that they dont.


Also, on the topic of spelling: phaliure may not be in the Oxford english dictionary, butit is in use, especially on this forum. And the rest, which arenot an unreasonable amount, are called typo's.


I would flame your punctuation, but i dont have time, so i'll just say this: it's bad.