Originally Posted by otherpuff

I really don't appreciate being banned for my beliefs either. Here are your facts.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010.html

Originally Posted by hanz0

... I'm pretty sure your source actually refutes your claim. Congratulations, you've made it unnecessary for me to respond to that ridiculous argument at all.

Originally Posted by Redundant

@Ray

Earlier in this thread you claimed that there only are ideologies that contradict our ideologies, no ideologies that would contradict our general idea of morals.
There can be very well ideologies that contradict obvious morals. In the most basic sense, I would say that murder is generally morally reprehensible. In your example of Nazi-ism, one of the aspects of their ideologies is to "purify" the human race by murder. These ideologies are mistaken, delusioned, and are extreme.
I can't say I agree.
First of all: I find many actions caused by ideological ideas very immoral. The hunting of women who are thought to be witches, for example.
Delusion, mistaken, and extreme.
They do not do it against their conscience, they really do believe that those women are evil and must be killed.
"The sense of right and wrong . . . is so delicate, so fitful, so easily puzzled, obscured, perverted, so subtle in its argumentative methods, so impressionable by education, so biassed by pride and passion, so unsteady in its course, that in the struggle for existence amid the various exercises and triumphs of the human intellect, the sense is at once the highest of all teachers yet the least luminous"
Basically, the conscience can be biased and made to believe things.

It somewhat feels like you are trying to separate ideologies and moral because they sometimes contradict each other if morals are universal.

They are very interdependent. An ideology is a worldview. That includes morals and ethics.
I am defining ideology and morality and splitting the difference because you are saying that morality is ideology in attempt to refute my claims that morality is a sense that all humans have in common.

You still have not defined what exact values of morals are universal.
If you mean things like family life, social behaviour etc in general:
We do not need something that cannot be explained, comprehended or perceived to explain why they are there. Plain and simple, why would you use goddidit as anwer when that is anything but satisfying?
There are no definitive exact moral values that are universal. I do not advocate moral uniformity or moral absolutism (certain acts are always bad, regardless the circumstance and culpability of all parties). Morality itself is universal.

As for your continuous goddidit point. "God did it" is a satisfying answer for religious faith. That is all it is good for for all science and such is concerned, and for all I am concerned. I do not and will not use "god did it" as an explanation for scientific, philosophical, ethical, biological, mathematical, and any other subjects that are not religious faith.