Whereas that is true, that everything leads unto another, it is a universally-held belief that we ourselves make our own decisions and have the power to choose between different options, so the idea of sin more-so relates to choosing options which oppose Christian values and beliefs, etc.
I understand where you're coming from for sure though, but that idea of people being able to act of their own accord is a belief held within the Christian framework (and also that God granted them this).
On the other hand, there is, in nature, no free-will to speak of really. The universe is much like a wound-clock and everything is, with some exception, predetermined. The decisions we "make" are influenced by so many other factors which were influences by so many other factors which all date back to the beginning of the existence of anything. So, determinism has a large role to play. Still, there still exists chance and randomness. There's something called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which to the better of my understanding, describes how particles act in unpredictable ways and have an element of randomness to them. It is these particles behaving in such a way that gives rise to possible pathways in our timeline. So, that's likely the closest possible thing we have to freewill: randomness.
Originally Posted by
JorreI14
Logic is no use. He told me something, I can't remember the exact words but he said something along the lines of, "God, being omniscient, knew Adam and Eve would sin, but they had free will. So is God really to blame?"
If I didn't know he was serious, I'd think he was being satirical
It's a common problem actually.
I'll surmise it in a little syllogism.
P1: God is omnipotent.
P2: God is omniscient.
P3: God is omnibenevolent.
P4: God engineered the circumstances in which Adam and Eve would sin, knowing that they would sin and that humanity would be damned because of it.
P5: God has the ability to prevent these circumstances and create circumstances that promote the well-being of humans.
P6: God wants to create circumstances that promote the well-being of humans.
C1: God engineered the circumstances in which Adam and Eve would sin, knowing that they would sin and that humanity would be damned because of it. He had the ability to do otherwise. If premises 1 and 2 are true, premise 3 is false.
C2: God has the ability to prevent circumstances that damn humanity and create circumstances that promotes the well-being of humans. God wants to create circumstances that promote the well-being of humans. God has created circumstances that have damned humanity. If premises 1 and 3 are true, premise 2 is false.
C3: God wants to create circumstances that promote the well-being of humans. God engineered the circumstances in which Adam and Eve would sin, knowing that they would sin and that humanity would be damned because of it. God wanted to create different circumstances, but could not. If premises 2 and 3 are true, premise 1 is false.
It's not much of a syllogism, but that outlines the problem.
Anyway, that grants that God even exists, which there is still no conclusive proof for whatsoever.
The bible is riddled with fallacies and contradictions.
EDIT:
Originally Posted by
count3rl33
@Jorrei: so does this mean, that God is against the freewill of humankind? Wouldn't that be like the exact opposit of the loving-god-image they wanna spread?
No, the problem of Adam and Eve has nothing to do with God's feelings toward free-will or anything of the sort.
The problem of Adam and Eve details that either God is responsible for their sin and doesn't care to change it (knowing it would happen and being able to do otherwise, thus not being omnibenevolent), that God is responsible for their sin and would've changed it had he known what would happen (thus not being omniscient), or that God knew it would happen and wanted to do differently but couldn't (thus not being omnipotent).
It describes that the defining characteristics of God are incompatible with reality or what is said to have occurred.
God cannot be all of those things if the story of Adam and Eve is to be taken as a realistic account of history.
Originally Posted by
souldevilj
I don't understand why people bother to have complex arguments over God when God was an idea created by the human mind. Just because we thought of it doesn't make it so. The galaxy it self is much older than the human race, God obviously didn't create this place for us to live our pointless lives in xD
People bother to have such complex arguments over God because it is something that plagues our modern world.
Religions seek to spread and control things such as our education.
There are religious groups that are petitioning to have creationism taught in schools as opposed to evolution.
This is one of the reasons people have such complex arguments over it.
Another is that it is highly invasive. Christianity and a number of other religions preach intolerance, violence, ignorance, mindless obedience, and all other sorts of things. It is things like these that some people often refuse to accept and buy into. Furthermore, Christianity (and other religions) offer a proposed answer to the life, our existence, and everything, which has been the center of much thought since the beginning of our conscious being. It is no wonder that people debate it so highly as for such a large question, a lot of people want to make sure they're correct in their beliefs. There are so many reasons that people have complex arguments over God. God and religion, not to mention, is also a very, very complex subject as well. It's more than an argument over where to go for dinner. Instead, it's an argument that involves multiple fields such as biology and other earth sciences, philosophy, history, and so forth. It makes claims about human nature, where we come from, how we should condone ourselves, and so forth. If something had that much of an impact over you, would you at least like to know that it was even the truth?
Even if God in Christianity is proven to exist as described in the bible, he is a malicious and tyrannical dictator. I don't know about anyone else, but I personally would not follow God if he were to exist because I do not support his methods or the actions he carries out, nor his values. As 'just' punishment, I'd be sent to burn and suffer the worst possible agony for all eternity.
There are so many, many things wrong with religion. Complex arguments are had because it seeks to invade, and there is much opposition.
Last edited by rappunk23; Jan 15, 2014 at 09:13 AM.
Reason: Grammatical error.