Original Post
Toribash in Numbers
Recently there's been talk about copying openers, possibilities and the like. For the past hour or so I've been really bored so I decided to calculate some probability factors:
Number of possible openers: 4398046511104
Number of possible combined openers: 19342813113834066795297716
Number of possible outcomes in a Toribash match with 120/10 frames, no fracture, dismemberment, or dq:
2,7430620343968443416279681255936^303
I for one then find it amazing how people can say that avoiding to copy openers, or moves in general is impossible. If everyone were introduced to Toribash in a closed cubical where they fought alone against uke, they would all try a different approach.
The "impossible" factor here, is the human mind. To become better, we naturally throw away our creativity and adapt to the style used by whoever rests above us on the food-chain.
My claim: There are still undiscovered openers that function just as well or better than the already "invented" ones, but none of us have had the mental width to find them yet.
Discuss.
Number of possible openers: 4398046511104
Number of possible combined openers: 19342813113834066795297716
Number of possible outcomes in a Toribash match with 120/10 frames, no fracture, dismemberment, or dq:
2,7430620343968443416279681255936^303
I for one then find it amazing how people can say that avoiding to copy openers, or moves in general is impossible. If everyone were introduced to Toribash in a closed cubical where they fought alone against uke, they would all try a different approach.
The "impossible" factor here, is the human mind. To become better, we naturally throw away our creativity and adapt to the style used by whoever rests above us on the food-chain.
My claim: There are still undiscovered openers that function just as well or better than the already "invented" ones, but none of us have had the mental width to find them yet.
Discuss.
Last edited by CMon; Oct 3, 2008 at 11:50 PM.
Number of possible openers: 4398046511104 How exactly did you come to that number? I counted 4096 000 000 00 different openers basing my calculation on that the first 2 turns counts towards the opener.
How many turns counts towards the opener in your case?
20 different joints with 4 different states, plus the grip factor, and taking into account the first two frames
(20^4x4)^2
20^4 = 16 00 00 (number of different openers in the first frame without taking into account wether you grip or not)
16 00 00 x 4 = 64 00 00 (number of different openers in the first frame when taking into account wether you grip or not)
64 00 00^2 = 4096 000 000 00 (number of different openers when taking the second turn and wether you grip or not into account.)
This is also assuming that none of the joints will break or get fractured.
For combined openers I get
4096 000 000 00 x 2 = 8192 000 000 00 different outcomes.
How many turns counts towards the opener in your case?
20 different joints with 4 different states, plus the grip factor, and taking into account the first two frames
(20^4x4)^2
20^4 = 16 00 00 (number of different openers in the first frame without taking into account wether you grip or not)
16 00 00 x 4 = 64 00 00 (number of different openers in the first frame when taking into account wether you grip or not)
64 00 00^2 = 4096 000 000 00 (number of different openers when taking the second turn and wether you grip or not into account.)
This is also assuming that none of the joints will break or get fractured.
For combined openers I get
4096 000 000 00 x 2 = 8192 000 000 00 different outcomes.
Last edited by Chronos; Oct 3, 2008 at 03:25 PM.
Originally Posted by Chrawnus
How many turns counts towards the opener in your case?
I counted only the first turn.
My way of doing it:
- A joint has 4 states.
- Two joints would make 4 x 4 possible combinations:
AA
AB
AC
AD
BA
BB
BC
BD
CA
CB
CC
CD
DA
DB
DC
DD
Now, 20 joints + two hands with two possible states each (counts as 4 options) would make 4^21 possible combinations.
4^21 = 4398046511104
Originally Posted by Redwards
Just cause there are that many openers that doesn't mean they are all good ones.
That's not my point. My point is that since there are over a billion possible openers, it's highly improbable (most likely impossible) that all effectual options have been tried or even remotely discovered yet.
Last edited by CMon; Oct 3, 2008 at 04:12 PM.
