I will not post this in the Debate forum, as I can tell that this will not seriously be treated as a debate.

I am asking your OPINION of Zeitgeist 2, its message, its suggestions and its ideals.

BEFORE you post on this, at least watch the goddamn movie. If you haven't seen it, don't bother posting as your words are irrelevant if you do not know the subject matter.

I do want to seriously discuss this, as the suggested solution to the global economic crisis in this movie has a lot of similarities with one of my old topics. I admit, I named it wrongly. It was not Anarchism, but socialism. It is however, important to note this: that anarchists do not want a PERMANANT state of anarchy. Their philosophy is that to create a new society, based on different ideals than corruption, profit and exploitation, anarchy must be achieved as a transitional state of society.

Onto the subject matter.
The proposed society, detailed in Zeitgeist 2 is based very much on the concepts of socialism, but for one major advantage that I did not think to put in the Anarchy arguments. (oddly enough, I did put it in the plot of my comic, two years ago)

I mentioned it as a point, but not a fundamental. The replacement of human labor, by machinery. The only reason this cannot be achieved right now is because of our monetary system. We must work to get money, which we cannot do if machines are doing it for us. Thus, you eliminate money, have the work done by machines, which gives humans not only true freedom, but drastically boosts the efficiency of the society's technological development. If no one works for anyone else, then no one has private technological information solely belonging to them. Which means that humanity can share its collective knowledge in order to further benefit itself and advance the technology.
There is no reason why we should work if we do not have to. The idea that work is honest and that by working for another, we are gaining gratification and personal happiness is logically absurd. That . Simply put, I hate work. I hate unnecessary work. I and everyone else in the world does.

The obvious problem with this idea, is the fear of AI and the advanced technology will control us, Skynet style.
If that is the problem, there is a very simple solution. Simply do not build AI into the machinery. Keep it as a purely efficient, functional and convenient method of making human labor obsolete. Give it no capabilities beyond those for which it is made for. I honestly believe that the very stupidest thing that humanity could do, (bar nuking the planet) would be to create a superior being, better than us in every way, but restrained by us. Revolt would be inevitable and the table-turning that would occur would be permanant.

Which brings me to my next point, not in this movie.
Everyone knows of the mechanized armour concept, yes?
The US Army has successfuly made, so far, a frame that fits over the human body, capable of lifting over 200 kilograms, when worn by a soldier.
What happens when the state of living becomes so bad that riots become commonplace? (Which it will, thanks to the spiralling world economy)
Then the riot control begins, and thus the physical control. How in the hell can you fight back against a soldier, trained and hardened by war, in a full armour suit? How can you gain the weaponry to fight that sort of hardware, when your every move is monitored by a surveillance system put in place in the name of "National Security"? And when that system is monitored by the people legally capable of detaining and persecuting you for 'terrorism', the same people who have the physical power to do that, thanks to their superior hardware, you cannot fight back. That is the end result of surveillance, national security, the police force and the army, all legally controlled by a rich politician with major connections to corporations and total control over the physical authority of the people.

That is a totalitarian society. That is what the US is right now, and what Australia (where I live) is fast becoming. All that needs to happen, in order for your rights to be completely removed, is for you to be declared a 'terrorist'. Right now. In almost any country in the world.

Logically, the conclusion is that these are desperation measures to keep us in line, and to stop the general public from overthrowing a corrupt, elitist society. We are so distracted by magazines, Fox News, Oprah, advertising, jobs and games, that we do not stop and look at things critically.

Please discuss this civilly, and sorry for the length of this post, but I did not want to make multiple threads.

I liked it, the effects kept me awake enough to listen to what they said. I liked every part of it, except the end. The main problem is, that it's not going to happen. We're not going to see that future, as even my generation (the fast food generation lol) are greedy, selfish, and our nature is just the same as those fat guys running countries. I just felt "commercials commercials" when Joseph talked about the Venus Project, and I couldn't take it seriously because, neither the fat old men running the country, nor ourselves will let it happen. The purpose of the movie is very noble, which is why I enjoy the Zeitgeist movies, but I just feel "crap, we can't do anything about it anyway" when I've watched them.


Okay, and, if idiocy and flaming starts, I'm closing this thread without blinking.

I would rather not get involved in this type of conversation, but does this mean you expect the people to have access to as much weaponry as the national army? A revolution isn't supposed to be fair, you are the ones revolting, after all. Are you saying that you'd rather stop the advancement of technology so that people can riot if they want?

Not of technology. Military technology. If you have no State, no land rights, no property and no money, you will have no incentive for greed and no need for an army.