Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

This is a societal and cultural problem

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

So let's talk about the US. They have problems teaching even basic maths and literature, can they really handle teaching people to be responsible?

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

Is there anything to help? Sure, mental health registry, I know the liberals will scream discrimination, but handing guns to chronically depressed people isn't working out too well.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

There's already strict guidelines on gun storage, but people just don't do it.

Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare

What are you referring to here? Just curious.

Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare

To be fair, math and literature is harder to learn than "Don't point that at people."

Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare

The way our gun laws are set up are as follows: If you are not a convicted felon, do not have a history of domestic violence, or do not have a debilitating mental condition, you are eligible to purchase and own a firearm. This includes chronically depressed people, but if that person is denied the right to own a gun, and is robbed, it might push that person over the edge, instead of that person owning a gun and being able to defend themselves and possibly gaining self confidence because of it.

Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare

The only storage regulations are that they must either be kept in a locked case, or have a trigger lock on them. Everyone that I know does this, and most other people that I have seen also do this. Shooting ranges will not let you shoot unless you have everything locked up, so everyone that goes to a range does it. Please do not assume that most gun owners are irresponsible hicks.

Originally Posted by protonitron

Your point is a good one, but I feel like just making people more responsible in general is a lot harder that it seems. And being less acceptant of irresponsible people affects the whole country in many ways and would be pretty expensive. I know that at present there are not many other solutions but I don't feel like your system is entirely sensible. Just because you make schemes to make a more trustworthy population doesn't mean that you should make it easier to get guns or that gun crime would stop. Although a greater concern for education and mental care would certainly not be a bad thing whatever the circumstance.

Originally Posted by Ele

Thinking about shootings and armed robberies, are they more often perpetrated by legal gun owners or illegal gun owners?

If it's by illegal gun owners (which I'm inclined to think it is), then clearly the law's ineffective. We need to look at why that is (I'm guessing it's to do with socioeconomic issues) and think of initiatives/policy to address the causes.

Originally Posted by Oracle

If you bothered to look up the liberal perspective on gun registry, you would see that liberals are the predominant political group in America who advocate using mental health as a denying factor for gun ownership. The major groups that outwardly have expressed that mental health should not be a factor with gun ownership have been libertarians or conservatives.

In fact, liberals are the most likely to advocate stricter gun registration and gun ownership laws based on medical and criminal history. It's one of the defining political standpoints of liberals in America. Don't take potshots at liberals if you're just going to be using a blanket generalization of "liberals lose their minds over any discrimination".

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

Does ownership of guns inherently make you a murderer? How come other countries can own guns and not have astronomical crime rates? This suggests it's a problem with the culture in USA.

Originally Posted by protonitron

Remember we are talking about gun laws in general, not just the USA.

Originally Posted by protonitron

And remember this thread is not about how to solve gun crime it is about what gun laws should be. I agree that the fastest way to stop people doing something is to stop kids growing up into that sort of person but this is not really what this thread is about. You are telling us how a society can reduce crime in general while the Thread Starter didn't mention crime, although gun crime and gun accidents are the only reason that gun laws need to be in place.

Originally Posted by protonitron

So is your argument that if society was improved gun restrictions could be much more relaxed? because this sort of makes sense, and does show that gun laws should be based on the society they apply too rather than there being a universal set of laws which work for every nation. If so then this is a relevant argument but nevertheless, try to focus on specific gun law rather than just general societal problems and crime rates.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

Well that's not quite correct because different states have their own laws.

There's been quite a few cases where mentally ill people have purchased guns and then used them, either on themselves or others.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

Again, depends on the state, and clearly the laws for your state are inadequate. Just having a trigger lock is not enough.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

I didn't look up their official statement, I'm just going by what I see them post. Obviously liberals is quite a big group, I was referring to just some people who happen to be liberals.

Originally Posted by protonitron

What types of improvements do you think would stop irresponsible people being stupid with dangerous things? (How do you stop people being irresponsible?)