Secret Santa 2024
Original Post
USA, from the perspective of a European
Just wanted to start a little discussion here. What do you guys think about the western state, what effects does it have on todays world etc.

I personally think, that a country with a national debt of over 13 trillion dollars (over 3 times the money that is on this earth) should be doing desperate actions to get rid of at least some of the debt, and not producing more and more weapons, and getting their hands into every war there is. For example, the situation in Ukraine: the crisis caused the value of ruble to collapse. At the same time the price of oil went down. Every time the price of oil has been low, Saudi Arabia has reduced the production of oil to get the prices up, but this time they're producing even more, probably to get Russia on it's knees begging for mercy. Since Usa and Saudi Arabia have been keeping meetings about the thing, the question is: What has Usa promised to Saudi Arabia as a reward for continuing the oil production?

This was just a little starting statement to get the thread going, will be joining the conversations for more.
Empires come and go, this time it's no different. China's rise is on the horizon, let's just hope the USA will have the common sense to go silently.

Debt is money, so I don't see how you came to the conclusion in your second sentence.

For the Ukraine situation, it's pretty much the US bullying Russia in it's own backyard. All that violence being done to the Ukrainians could have been avoided if the US didn't destabilize the country's pro-Russian government.
Personally, I don't know why the US has such a massive army. I mean, is it really necessary? I'm the kind of person that thinks that the US should spend more on renewable energy, or cures for disease and such.

The world is nearly $61 trillion in debt. Tell me, who's the world in debt to?
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Originally Posted by SkyWhale View Post
The world is nearly $61 trillion in debt. Tell me, who's the world in debt to?

Mars.

Anyways, When you have 2 parties that don't work together and don't get anything done in the first place nothing gets done. The American attitude is this, It's our duty to bring justice and freedom to people lesser than us.
Originally Posted by Goat View Post
Mars.

Anyways, When you have 2 parties that don't work together and don't get anything done in the first place nothing gets done. The American attitude is this, It's our duty to bring justice and freedom to people lesser than us.

It's funny how if you ask most leaders they'll say the same.
You can't really say that it's just America that bring freedom to people when other countries help out 'lesser' countries.

Another strange thing is I would consider most places you've attacked with drones as 'lesser' than you. Strange how killing hundreds of innocent people is misinterpreted as 'freedom'.
Life's not a waste of time and time's not a waste of life so let's stop wasting time, get wasted and have the time of our lives - Mr Worldwide 3:18
Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
Another strange thing is I would consider most places you've attacked with drones as 'lesser' than you. Strange how killing hundreds of innocent people is misinterpreted as 'freedom'.

I completely agree.
As I coming from a country affected by this, Puerto Rico, I can confirm this statement is 100% true.
Through time, imperialism has just been changed into more happy-sounding variants which are still the same, and function the same.
Modo Bestia
The thing is that when you pay debts by taking loans from other countries who do the same, and the interest rates must be payed by more loans, the whole global economy becomes a joke. As far as I know the USA is the country where this debt snowballing effect has been worse, but I can't see how anyone can take all these debts seriously anymore.
Last edited by Zelda; Jan 1, 2015 at 01:34 PM.
Good morning sweet princess
I don't think Obama necessarily is as obsessed with freedom as he might otherwise be portrayed. The Taliban massacred a school for no reason and filmed it. You can't blame America for being angry at how fucked up the Middle East is (the majority is obviously a lot more rational, but bad things happen, and ignoring it would look insensitive.

You are also assuming that America imvaded the Middle East for any other reason that oil.
Good morning sweet princess
Originally Posted by protonitron View Post
You are also assuming that America imvaded the Middle East for any other reason that oil.

Not to support the invasions, but uuuugh, this is such a played out insinuation. Which invasion? Kuwait? Iraq? Afghanistan? What oil related interests have the U.S. secured, seized, or controlled in any of them? The closest you get is development, but not ownership of, Iraqi oil sands, but ultimately America is far more reliant on Saudi Arabia, Canada, and South America for its oil consumption in addition to domestic, so economic incentives were effectively limited to stopping Saddam from manipulating the price of oil, which wasn't a particularly immediate threat, either.

Originally Posted by nertis
Through time, imperialism has just been changed into more happy-sounding variants which are still the same, and function the same.

Drone strikes against innocents are deplorable. They are not an example of classical imperialism, and don't function similarly at all, as imperialism relies on the hijacking of infrastructure and resources.

Most of this thread is people who don't understand how debt works, but it's considered normal and even beneficial for a country to have a large, consistent debt. Bear in mind that much of a government's debt is to its own people in the form of treasury bonds.
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Hey look more than two lines.
Originally Posted by Boredpayne View Post
Not to support the invasions, but uuuugh, this is such a played out insinuation. Which invasion? Kuwait? Iraq? Afghanistan? What oil related interests have the U.S. secured, seized, or controlled in any of them? The closest you get is development, but not ownership of, Iraqi oil sands, but ultimately America is far more reliant on Saudi Arabia, Canada, and South America for its oil consumption in addition to domestic, so economic incentives were effectively limited to stopping Saddam from manipulating the price of oil, which wasn't a particularly immediate threat, either.

I thought invasion of Iraq in particular was said to be to protect the petrodollar, not securing interests.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff