Originally Posted by cowmeat
And before someone says: "Doesn't the fetus have a right to its own body" Well kind of yes, but is the right of a functionless mesh of cells that cant even feel pain larger than a full grown humans?
Adding on to this a bit, this is why Ele suggested that we try and figure out at what point a developing fetus can be counted as a human. I am unable to find any references because I don't know the exact wording, but in the US, there are laws in place that say that you are in charge of your own body, even as a baby. This is why you must personally sign up to be an organ donor. These laws even apply to corpses. Morticians cannot take organs from a dead man's body and give them to the hostpital to use in transplants unless that person previously signed up as a donor. This is where the whole abortion debate gets hazy. Of course the mother has a right to her own body, but what about the fetus? Surely if a dead person still has rights over their own body, shouldn't a fetus as well? And then these questions loop back into the debate over whether a fetus is really a person or not.
All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’'s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.
Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare
Adding on to this a bit, this is why Ele suggested that we try and figure out at what point a developing fetus can be counted as a human. I am unable to find any references because I don't know the exact wording, but in the US, there are laws in place that say that you are in charge of your own body, even as a baby. This is why you must personally sign up to be an organ donor. These laws even apply to corpses. Morticians cannot take organs from a dead man's body and give them to the hostpital to use in transplants unless that person previously signed up as a donor. This is where the whole abortion debate gets hazy. Of course the mother has a right to her own body, but what about the fetus? Surely if a dead person still has rights over their own body, shouldn't a fetus as well? And then these questions loop back into the debate over whether a fetus is really a person or not.
We discussed in lenght of this with Ele in irc. Alot of things were said and discussed but in a nutshell: It doesnt matter even if the fetus has right to its own body 1st trimester. The rights of the mother trump those rights 1000x.
When it gets to later stages of developement things change, but supposing we are talking about pretty early fetuses
Not every right/value is equal
why is this even a discussion.
if you got raped would you want a rapist's child?
better question if you knew your child was going to be mentally handicapped would you want him/her to suffer through life?
OH EVEN BETTER
if you're a teen and you know you're not capable of taking care of the child , isn't it smarter to get rid of the baby then raise it as trash so it can produce more trash?
if you got raped would you want a rapist's child?
better question if you knew your child was going to be mentally handicapped would you want him/her to suffer through life?
OH EVEN BETTER
if you're a teen and you know you're not capable of taking care of the child , isn't it smarter to get rid of the baby then raise it as trash so it can produce more trash?
=
Originally Posted by Velair
why is this even a discussion.
if you got raped would you want a rapist's child?
One of the few situations in which abortion is a reasonable solution.
better question if you knew your child was going to be mentally handicapped would you want him/her to suffer through life?
Why don't we just kill all disabled people too so they don't have to suffer through life? Yay eugenics! Because life is suffering, and because deciding who gets to live is wrong, that's why.
OH EVEN BETTER
if you're a teen and you know you're not capable of taking care of the child , isn't it smarter to get rid of the baby then raise it as trash so it can produce more trash?
"I'm stupid trash and having a stupid trash kid is a terrible decision so I'll run the risk of getting pregnant anyways and just terminate the pregnancy because that's what responsible people do!" How about not saying it's the responsible thing to have an abortion. It's responsible for the person to get their shit together and raise the child correctly, it is not responsible to get pregnant and terminate the pregnancy because you feel like it.
See, that's the thing
If you give birth to the child first and then make the same choice, it becomes murder. Where exactly do you cross that line? Why do we forgo all responsibility and kick the can down the road? If you don't want a kid, either triple up on the birth control to make the chances of a pregnancy virtually impossible or get your tubes tied/snipped, be responsible. Abortions are not pleasant for anyone, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to not be in that situation to begin with. That's not to say it should be illegal, I firmly believe people should have the right to make their own decisions, but stupid people will constantly make stupid decisions. People have to be forced to be responsible for their actions or they will constantly do dumb things.
I believe the only thing that would truly solve this problem is to promote or reward responsibility. Free birth control, free sterilization procedures, free classes on how to not be an irresponsible dickwad. Accountability is important.
Hoss.
