Firstly, I don't want to have another thread simply weighing up the pros and cons of a religion. It gets repetitive and dull real fast. Although there is a discussion as to whether Terrorism is growing as a result of Islam or Islam growing as an excuse for terrorism, please be careful that you are not talking about the strengths and weaknesses of the religion, this thread's topic is mostly just about cause and effect:

Points of interest.

• Are these trends real? What about in terms of severity/amount of life lost?
• What external, possibly previously overlooked factors could be causing this trend?
• Would it be ethical or even possible to reduce or eliminate these factors and how?

I'm going to avoid the no true Scotsman fallacy of saying they're "not true Muslims", but it definitely is based on their interpretation of the religion that they decide to do these things. I really don't think it's based on a personal desire to cause havoc, at least not in most individuals' cases. If you look at some of their own literature, such as Dabiq, the magazine ISIS publishes, they quite often refer to themselves as "slaves of Allah". Not "servants" of Allah, but slaves. These people legitimately believe that there is a higher power and that they are doing as this higher power commands. Again, I won't go into anything on whether or not it's a valid interpretation of Islam - I've never read any of the holy texts so I'm not even informed enough to give an opinion there, but to these people, God telling them to end the lives of anyone who won't convert is reality, and they're scared enough of him to follow through. And who can blame them? If you legitimately believe there's some all-powerful being giving you the ultimatum of do some shit here and get eternal bliss or don't do some shit here and get eternal torment, how many people would actually be able and willing to defy that?

The increased attacks are the result of this belief spreading. People are buying into it, and a lot of them are really just doing what they believe is required of them.

The people that blow themselves up may be doing it because they truly believe they're serving the will of God, but I think there's likely a geopolitical reason as to why we've seen a rise in terrorism over the past few years (American interventionism... cough). I believe it's just as much political as it is religious. What do you guys think about this?

some more questions:
who is arming the terrorists?
where the suicide bombers already living in Belgium as some sources claim?

This would belong in the thread about the recent attacks on Belgium. This thread is about general trends in terrorism in general.
-----
Also I changed my mind about not talking about Islam (feel free to re-read first post, it has been changed). As long as we are not talking about the morality of the religion or how beneficial it is overall, then it will almost certainly be fine.

It's going to be difficult to talk about an ideology in the context of terrorism without going into its moral guidelines. The whole discussion is about terrorism which (Im confident in saying that most people agree) is caused by geopolitical, socioeconomical and religious reasons. I don't think anyone sane is denying that there are religious motives for these attacks. Thus not talking about the morals of the religion that is a partial cause to these attacks feels like missing the point. I understand you dont want the thread to turn in to "why is islam shit, or is it?" -thread, but the question of terrorism caused by ISIS in western countries is entwined with the question of the morality of islam.

I find Islam to be in an almost unique situation as a religion. Im 100% comfortable saying that islam as an ideology, not taking people into account, is worse than extreme facism. And the same could be said, bit to a lesser extent, about other religions as well. Just read some of the "holy" rules written down, the death penalty is thrown around like a playground insult. But the unique situation with islam is the amount of support the radical side of islam receives. In an ideology where there is no leader or the leader is absent, aka god, it's up to the people to decide how to conduct their lives in the context of that ideology. And thus, no single person gets to decide for others what a "real" muslim is like. And when there are hundreds of thousands of people who believe in the worst of islam, islam becomes partially a religion that supports rape, murder, homophobia and chauvinims just to name a few. I honestly, as controversial and provocative as it sounds, believe that open loathing towards islam and religion in general would be good for the human kind in the long run. But as long as there are billion people believing in the same religion, with wildly different interpretations of how to live by it, we obviously cant hold all of islam accountable for terrorism.

But the matter of how to counter terrorism is pretty simple (in theory), it's education.
We know that socioeconomical and geopolitical factors are prevelant in the developement of radicalization, but we also know that wealthy western middle class teenagers are sometimes drawn towards radical ideals. I believe that a secular education of science, philosophy and history is the way to remove radicalized ideals from a society for the most part. Obviously political stability, wealth and equality are the foundations for a functional community but proper education is in my opinion the end goal.

Dude, have you heard about the Holocaust?
Would you please outline the parts of Islam that are worse than extreme Facism precisely and with first hand sources?

I am only here because some guy on IRC made fun of retarded posts and I have no idea what this thread has evolved to or if it is even alive any more.




edit:
I've been linked to a prime example of extreme Fascism that is worse than Islam:

Yes, I'm sure you'd be thinking the same thing while Abdul was tying c4 to your neck or running you over with a fucking tank.

You guys are so far removed from reality, talking about stuff happening thousands of kilometres away. I'm the one with the terrorists in my back yard, not you. You are all indoctrinated clueless sheep. Noone in the history of mankind has won a war with kindness and compassion.

I suppose you're right. If the growth of Islam is something contributing to the increase in terrorism, then whether it would be possible, or morally acceptable to prevent this growth would come under one of the points of interest I listed for this topic. But at that stage in the discussion (having already discerned whether condemning Islam would actually reduce terrorism or not) I would rather we looked at the morality, and practicality of preventing people believing in what they want. Rather than the thing they believe in itself. That being said, whether or not it would be sensible to erradicate the whole religion, as opposed to just the dangerous parts, would also be valid to discuss.

Basically, I don't care if you think Islam is great/terrible, I only care if you think it causes terrorism, and if you think it could be eradicated.

Going through these point by point.

" If the growth of Islam is something contributing to the increase in terrorism"

It is.

"whether it would be possible, or morally acceptable to prevent this growth would come under one of the points of interest"

Prevention is not an inherently bad thing by any means.
Preventing AIDS by using condoms is great, chopping off ones dick, not so great.
I believe in peaceful and civil ways of prevention, as stated in my previous post. I also believe that its more than just morally correct, its out moral obligation to prevent innocent people from getting harmed by hostile ideologies.

" I would rather we looked at the morality, and practicality of preventing people believing in what they want"

Im not trying to promote thought policing, 100% not. Right to free speech and free ideals are what I hold in the utmost highest regard. As stated previously, prevention =/= brain washing. Education and social stability are the best ways of prevention, and they have no cons (moral or practial) to them what so ever.


" That being said, whether or not it would be sensible to erradicate the whole religion, as opposed to just the dangerous parts, would also be valid to discuss. "

I believe that religions are inherently bad for humanity, but that being said, I also believe that harmless superstition isnt something we should worry about too much. If someone does a good deed because they believe thats what some god wants them to do, im all for that. Any positive act done in the name of a god is still a positive act.

"Basically, I don't care if you think Islam is great/terrible, I only care if you think it causes terrorism, "

I do think it does cause terrorism


"and if you think it could be eradicated."

That's too difficult for me to answer, but I would certainly say that not in the lifetime of me or my children.