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Dec 20, 2015 Old
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Dec 20, 2015 Old
Ranks; the aftermath
So now that everybody is settled in and the new ranks have been in place for quite some time, could we have a second discussion on them?
Has your opinion changed from the first few weeks to now? Do you like the new monthly event for the 32 top ranked players?

Keep in mind that Hampa has said the ranks are not done yet.
Rumor says he's now tackling the new warring system as a first priority, which is expected to take a longer amount of time.


Here's what I think.
Initially I absolutely hated it, and couldn't bother going on the game anymore, since to me the ELO increase/decrease is what made me try for each match.
It was a competition with myself, that with the new system isn't really possible. Now, I go ingame more again and I play for other reasons. I enjoy playing in betting servers, and dueling more, but rarely hang out with my friends/clan mates in a private server unless we're practicing something specific.
Seemingly nobody uses the ranked servers, so I'd expect I'm not alone in this.
We also now have the new monthly event for the 32 top ranks, which I personally feel is one of the only steps in the right direction, however brackets don't really contain many professional player, imo.

Thoughts on this? Like I asked above, how do you feel now compared to a few months ago when this was implemented?
Do you like the new monthly event?
Last edited by Hattersin; Dec 20, 2015 at 11:49 PM.
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Dec 20, 2015 Old
I don't really like the new system.
If you aren't one of the first people to be fighting after reset your screwed, and if you are and your gone for a day or 2 you are left in the dust and completely fucked over
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Dec 21, 2015 Old
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Dec 21, 2015 Old
Just a note the ranks are not done, a few updates have been suggested and discussed wirhin the GMs but due to a few pivotal people being somewhat inactive, or being busy with other things its not being pushed forward so much.

The fact is the new system is really not that nuch different from the old system, the basis upon which the ranks work, Elo, is the same. So the only difference are the rooms and the resets. I cant really go into detail about the changes etc because I dont have the go ahead, but i do think they are a step in the right direction. For a truly good ranked system it is clear that some form of matchmaking is needed, but thats not really something GMs can sort on our own, so I will avoid discussing it here for now
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Dec 21, 2015 Old
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Dec 21, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
Just a note the ranks are not done, a few updates have been suggested and discussed wirhin the GMs but due to a few pivotal people being somewhat inactive, or being busy with other things its not being pushed forward so much.

The fact is the new system is really not that nuch different from the old system, the basis upon which the ranks work, Elo, is the same. So the only difference are the rooms and the resets. I cant really go into detail about the changes etc because I dont have the go ahead, but i do think they are a step in the right direction. For a truly good ranked system it is clear that some form of matchmaking is needed, but thats not really something GMs can sort on our own, so I will avoid discussing it here for now

Fair enough, although since nobody is using the rooms I think it's still a big/important change.
On another note though, is matchmaking possible with the amount of people we have playing? Would it not just be unable to find matches for the top ranked players all the time?
Hope I'm not asking about stuff you're not allowed to talk about, heh.
Last edited by Hattersin; Dec 21, 2015 at 01:01 AM.
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Dec 21, 2015 Old
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Dec 21, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by Hattersin View Post
Fair enough, although since nobody is using the rooms I think it's still a big/important change.
On another note though, is matchmaking possible with the amount of people we have playing? Would it not just be unable to find matches for the top ranked players all the time?
Hope I'm not asking about stuff you're not allowed to talk about, heh.

I think that would be a problem too, there certainly would be problems, the fact is ToriBash is not really that suited to competitive gaming, but with with a search system that expands the allowed Elo difference with time it could work ok.
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Dec 22, 2015 Old
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Dec 22, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
ToriBash is not really that suited to competitive gaming, but with with a search system that expands the allowed Elo difference with time it could work ok.

That is just an excuse from pure laziness. Seriously? Not suited for competitive gaming? Well what on earth have all the duelers been doing all these years? Why do the same people always win the biggest tournaments? Gee, wonder why? Could It be because maybe toribash works as a competitive game given the right format.

The fact that the GM team cannot understand a simple fact that first to 2 tourneys every month aren't really competitive or smart. On top of which adding 30 ranked rooms with individual mods, which with this player base is like shooting yourself in the face. Monthly resets discourage people from even trying. because there is going to be that one guy (nerobe) who is going to do 1k games and autowin that month. Design at its finest! All that doesn't mean that TB in it self cannot be competitive.

Of course if you expect TB to work around first to ones, yeah, not very balanced for competition. But the fact just is that in first to 5s, the better player wins 90% of the time. It's just is that people don't care anymore. I've certainly lost most interest after all this fucking about and can't see people starting to properly care anymore. I'm not gonna say that GMs fucked it all up, maybe we all were maybe hoping for too much from you guys.
Last edited by cowmeat; Dec 22, 2015 at 12:03 AM.
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Dec 22, 2015 Old
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Dec 22, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
That is just an excuse from pure laziness. Seriously? Not suited for competitive gaming? Well what on earth have all the duelers been doing all these years? Why do the same people always win the biggest tournaments? Gee, wonder why? Could It be because maybe toribash works as a competitive game given the right format.

The fact that the GM team cannot understand a simple fact that first to 2 tourneys every month aren't really competitive or smart. On top of which adding 30 ranked rooms with individual mods, which with this player base is like shooting yourself in the face. Monthly resets discourage people from even trying. because there is going to be that one guy (nerobe) who is going to do 1k games and autowin that month. Design at its finest! All that doesn't mean that TB in it self cannot be competitive.

Of course if you expect TB to work around first to ones, yeah, not very balanced for competition. But the fact just is that in first to 5s, the better player wins 90% of the time. It's just is that people don't care anymore. I've certainly lost most interest after all this fucking about and can't see people starting to properly care anymore. I'm not gonna say that GMs fucked it all up, maybe we all were maybe hoping for too much from you guys.

If its an excuse for laziness why am I replying here at all? Why have a made list of suggestions for an update to this ranking system? Trying to make the best of something that isnt suited isnt the same as leaving it because it isnt suited. The very fact that that quote is within a suggestion/thought process about making the most of a ranking system we could have proves that some effort is being made, maybe you could make an effort to think about what youre saying before you say it.

In addition to this, I asked you what you thought of a few of the suggestions I made, and they addressed the majority of points you have made here and you agreed with my suggestions if I remember correctly.

Maybe I was hoping for too much with a thought out response from you.

Also this thread is for giving suggestions on how to improve the system not to fling hate at the GM team for not getting it how you wanted first time.
Last edited by SmallBowl; Dec 22, 2015 at 12:22 AM.
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Dec 22, 2015 Old
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Dec 22, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
That is just an excuse from pure laziness.

I think SmallBowl was referring to the nature of the game. Can you please ellaborate on how an overly complicated game of rock-paper-scissors can be competitive / require skill ? It's like saying that Hearthstone is an actual e-sport. Skill only gets you so far when you have no idea what your opponent is going to do. It comes down to who made the right guess.

Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
But the fact just is that in first to 5s, the better player wins 90% of the time.

Riiight.

Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
Well what on earth have all the duelers been doing all these years?

That doesn't mean that dueling is competitive( for the reasons stated in the first paragraph). I can make my own Minecraft PvP map, introduce a bunch of made up rules and pretend that it's a competitive game mode. It's not.

Or,you know, if you're that much dissatisfied with the game and the work of the Devs/Gms, why don't you just play a different game that is more tailored towards your MLG skills ?
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Dec 24, 2015 Old
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Dec 24, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
Just a note the ranks are not done, a few updates have been suggested and discussed wirhin the GMs but due to a few pivotal people being somewhat inactive, or being busy with other things its not being pushed forward so much.

Just a thought, I've been closely following the development of a game called Project Zomboid, and when the dev team had to work some multiplayer issues and steam integration, but all the team was busy on something else, they hired help from General Arcade as an "outsider" developer.

It helped them a lot, especially for the steam integration, maybe something along those lines could be done for the development of a matchmaking system you'd explain beforehand. But then again, it's just a thought ^^
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Dec 24, 2015 Old
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Dec 24, 2015 Old
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
I don't know about that. Community consultation on projects like this can only be a positive thing. I've said this before to Gynx, when we were working on the clan rework. If you're the government and you're planning on implementing some big project that'll affect the community, then the first thing you do (after developing a draft proposal) is to go to the town hall and see what everyone thinks of it. You don't have to implement every change that the people suggest, but you can get an idea of their general concerns and of what they like about the proposal. I was shut down by Gynx at the time because he strongly felt that this consultation process should be conducted after it's already been implemented - like a beta stage. I think that's short-sighted though, since there's absolutely no harm done in getting the community's opinion on it while it's still a draft. In addition, the more that someone is involved in developing a project, the more satisfaction they'll feel with the end results. Discussing the drafts of big community projects with the community can only be a beneficial thing if handled properly.

I certainly understand where youre coming from, and the analogy yoube used is a good one, the differmece between the 2 scenarios however is that going to the town hall in itself provides a barrier, so you have to be genuinely interested to give an input. Perhaps contacting people who have shown an interest in the topic to find their opinion would be a good move. But if that was done it would have to be done privately and secretely so people didnt get offended that the were not contacted, as they were interested too.

Originally Posted by deprav View Post
Just a thought, I've been closely following the development of a game called Project Zomboid, and when the dev team had to work some multiplayer issues and steam integration, but all the team was busy on something else, they hired help from General Arcade as an "outsider" developer.

It helped them a lot, especially for the steam integration, maybe something along those lines could be done for the development of a matchmaking system you'd explain beforehand. But then again, it's just a thought ^^

This would certainly be very cool, unfortunately this isdefinitely a hampa decision and not something the GM team can have any bearing on
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