Originally Posted by Gynx
I think everyone is either a) a little too nostalgic of that time or b) as not even there but drawing off what they heard from those in category a. It really wasn't all it was cracked up to be and my impression of it was that it was too controversial a board to keep around to keep everyone happy at the same time. Similar to the arguments that are brought up here, people are forgetting there were about as many people complaining about wibbles as people enjoying it back then. I don't think there'll be any change in that. I've always personally preferred the way things currently are (wibbles behind toriprime essentially) as it's fairer that those who don't want to get dragged into wibbles drama as it happens (and it will happen). I've always thought wibbles should be an opt-in deal and the way Toriprime functions is exactly that. I'm all for recreating the board or bringing the old boards back into TP/VIP, but not really too keen to have it become a standard board again.
Interesting how you tried spinning paying for wibbles as 'fairer' for the users.
I hope that's not your official decision. If so, you shouldn't enforce your minority view on the majority, man. You also shouldn't just discount the votes of everybody who voted for wibbles to come back because they're only just being 'ignorant' and 'nostalgic'.
Last edited by Ele; Sep 18, 2016 at 01:19 PM.
Originally Posted by Ele
Interesting how you tried spinning paying for wibbles as 'fairer' for the users.
I hope that's not your official decision. If so, you shouldn't enforce your minority view on the majority, man. You also shouldn't just discount the votes of everybody who voted for wibbles to come back because they're only just being 'ignorant' and 'nostalgic'.
Just voicing my opinion, not sure why that has raised your hackles.
Regarding what is fairest for users, if you had read my post you'd have seen that what I believe is fairest is making wibbles opt-in and not forum default. TP/VIP just has the framework for that which I think best suits wibbles, whether or not it's paid for, won in an event, or bought by some other alternative to real world currency (if that's open to happen - not sure if it is). Also, just because I believe your poll results and a lot of this discussion is based upon nostalgia and people wanting what they never had doesn't mean I'm discrediting the results. I just think it's important to consider why people vote and why they don't.
collect snots from the nose
Originally Posted by Ele
'Opt-in'. Opt-in for $10 you mean. That's a laugh. But OK. So long as that's just your opinion.
Originally Posted by Gynx
Regarding what is fairest for users, if you had read my post you'd have seen that what I believe is fairest is making wibbles opt-in and not forum default. TP/VIP just has the framework for that which I think best suits wibbles, whether or not it's paid for, won in an event, or bought by some other alternative to real world currency (if that's open to happen - not sure if it is).
Like I said, the opt-in is what is fairer, no matter how you do it. Toriprime is the only board in the community that users can currently opt-in to, there's no other parallel to draw currently.
The whole Buzzfeed style reply over standard reading comprehension is starting to get old. Wouldn't surprise me if people don't want to voice their opinions that stand against yours if all you're going to do is extrapolate them into something else entirely.
collect snots from the nose
Originally Posted by Gynx
Like I said, the opt-in is what is fairer, no matter how you do it. Toriprime is the only board in the community that users can currently opt-in to, there's no other parallel to draw currently.
You said people should pay to have access with TC, they should 'win it' in an event, or they should pay for it by some other means. Because that's somehow fairer... Yeah.
You know, every board is already opt-in. No one is forcing precious little petals to post or read threads there or anywhere else. It's all voluntary.
I don't often use the market. I voluntarily chose to 'opt' out of the market by minimising that forum section on the index. That may be 'opt-out', but nobody is getting hurt by having to click a single minimise button. It's also fairer too, since you're not restricting access to everyone in some misguided attempt at ... 'something'. You could even, by default set it so it's already minimised, and then have people 'opt-in' in by maximising it (if you're 'oh so concerned' about 'fairness' and set on having an opt-in system).
If you want actually wanted to be fair, you wouldn't try to make us pay to have it, or to make us win some ridiculous event. If some people are triggered by the mere existance of a board nobody is forcing them to look at (or even make visible (minimize it)), well then that's just ridiculous, and I think those safe-spacers should be safely ignored. They shouldn't have their very minority opinion parroted and championed by the community manager. Having the community steered in that sort of direction into the future is a sure-fire way to turn this place to shit.
Is it really even about fairness though? I doubt it is, because that's just such a loopy and bollocks reason.
Last edited by Ele; Sep 19, 2016 at 03:45 AM.
Originally Posted by Ele
You said people should pay to have access with TC, they should 'win it' in an event, or they should pay for it by some other means. Because that's somehow fairer... Yeah.
I said whether or not they pay for it. The other alternatives were just me ballparking, an event to bring back wibbles and give people access (if it were decided to be opt-in) is not a bad idea. I just think if we're doing something to bring it back we might as well make a meal out of it.
Originally Posted by Ele
You know, every board is already opt-in. No one is forcing precious little petals to post or read threads there or anywhere else. It's all voluntary.
I hear you, but we have different opinions on what "opt-in" is. Boards like wibbles bring a lot of blowback and while it would be nice if everyone could enjoy it, a lot of people don't. It's not uncommon for legitimate cases of harassment and so on to arise and while it is not something you might care to consider, our staff generally does. Wibbles has always had these issues historically and attempts at even creating boards like it (TP) has yielded similar results. It would be naive to think the same might not happen and whilst its one thing to ignore say, the market board, it's another to ignore a board of people that are harassing you.
Originally Posted by Ele
They shouldn't have their very minority opinion parroted and championed by the community manager. Having the community steered in that sort of direction into the future is a sure-fire way to turn this place to shit.
I'm sure doom-saying might get a reaction from other pro-wibblers but I'd like to remind you that we've been down this road before and... we're still here. It's almost the oldest Toribash meme at this point to say stuff like this. That said, I don't think that I'm "championing the minority", I think I'm considering all avenues of implementation - like a community manager should. There's nothing unfair about making the board opt-in that you've raised outside of the vice grip assumption that you have on the idea we're going to nickel and dime the entry fee, which I doubt would be the case at all. If the "safe spacers" were the minority you might not have seen the old wibbles with so many added restrictions towards the end, where one word posts and bashing threads were banned, "above user" threads were restricted, posts with "a bunch of space" were infractable, etc. You act like responding to complaints is something we've only just started to do.
Originally Posted by wibblefox
If you want to avoid theoretical wibble drama why don't you theoretically not read or post on the board? It seems that staff are hyper sensitive to this kind of thing, previously some argued that threads/posts they don't like should be deleted immediately. This feels like the same kind of suggestion. Is there anything stopping you from not visiting a sub you won't want to visit? I know I sure as heck don't visit a lot of subs, that is my way of "opting out".
That's fair. I think people should be encouraged to not visit boards that they're not interested in, but I think there's a difference between that and not visiting a board as volatile as wibbles can be. There's not many people here that will stand for harassment even if it's in a board they normally would ignore and there's no reason why they should. Probably something a lot of the nostalgic users have forgotten is that those types of rules were enforced due to the fact that people complained so often. I feel that it's a lot easier on everyone if we say to those users "well, you opted in on that content" if they complain about it, rather than the opposite.
Originally Posted by wibblefox
TP/VIP is not opt in it is pay walled, so it's a terrible analogy in the first place. Are you suggesting something like small said? This seems to me to be just another idea for the sake of giving staff work to do...
TP/VIP is opt-in, it's just done via. a paywall. There's plenty of ways to handle opt-in stuff, the easiest would have it be a disabled-by-default board unless you subscribe to it. Regarding staff workload - if you think that reintroducing wibbles isn't another thing that's going to give staff work to do you're sorely mistaken. Either way, no matter how we do it and if we do it at all I'd like to reiterate that this is just my opinion, no means am I saying "this is the way we must do it" and I am open to other avenues of introduction of the board, again, if it happens.
collect snots from the nose
