Originally Posted by Donseluke

Atleast you are educated. However, when you kill someone, DEPENDING upon how well your mind can even comprehend the situation, KILLING can make anyone, from Marine/soldier to murderer LOSE rationale... Let alone ethics and morals.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

We are fighting people who do not fall underneath the Geneva Convention, nor the rules of ENGAGEMENT let alone the UCMJ or anything like that. THATS why I of all people had to pick up dead marines that went missing from their posts with screws in their face when their bodies showed back up at the same post.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

And yes, YOU TRY keeping track of 400,000 some odd people joining the military, some of the less stable ones will slip through the cracks, and other people will follow them just so they can feel like they fit in.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

So, killing deer isn't a form of sport for hunting season? Or let alone moose, or bears? Sorry, in some countries eating DOG is a delicacy. That includes puppies. So yes, just about every country out there that kills anything for sport is undeveloped.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

I thats what i get from your post.

Is it a crime if you dont get caught? Nope, their trophy was that video and one of the Marines posted it. If they hadn't got caught it would have been swept under the rug.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

Its our job to maim and kill. In the Navy they get medals for firing a pistol at someone. We dont get that because ITS our JOB.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

You made very true points and for that i salute you. But in all reality, thats not how it is, and it probably wont ever change. It hasn't since the days of clubs and stones.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

I tried to detain as many as i could when it came to te enemy. But truth be told. A dead body tells more stories than a live one. Because we arent allowed to torture them. But they can put screws in our faces and do whatever it is they feel to us.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

If thats the case, where they are teaching kids how to make bomb vests and that suicide bombing in the name of whatever is a good thing. USING AN AMERICAN IDOL. (Albeit the costum really sucked, but it was still MICKEY MOUSE)

Originally Posted by Donseluke

Then they need to be slaughtered without remorse. Cats, dogs, camels. Nobody ever really pays to much attention to the bombs being dropped.. WELL GEE!

Originally Posted by Donseluke

Just think of how many puppies and kittens were pancaked by the 5k pounders we dropped over a few cities in Iraq

Originally Posted by Donseluke

So if you want to preach Geneva and human and animal rights... Preach it to them buddy, because either way.. They are the greater of two evils when it comes to both.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

The actions of just a few marines, doesnt mean they are all just like him.


*EDIT-- Hold up a damn minute... Water boarding that went on in the bay of POWS... Lawl. Like that real toture... Its just an illusion to make someone think they are drowning. No, real torture... They are the masters of it.

Originally Posted by CrazyGreek

If you think it's a "fine and dandy" job, I suggest you sign yourself up the next time you pass an armed forces career center.
I don't think you can comprehend what me, Don, or any other Armed Force member has/ had to go through.

Originally Posted by CrazyGreek

Iraqi terrorists don't have rules of engagement. How do you expect us to deal with ruthless, moral-less enemies without first lowering ourselves a little to better face them?
You can only learn so much from TV and movies, etc.
The rest comes from experience.

Originally Posted by CrazyGreek

So you admit it's a hard job.
So why are you criticizing one wrong move made by a guy under pressure?

Originally Posted by CrazyGreek

Was that dog yours? No? Thought so.

Originally Posted by CrazyGreek

Then why do you care more about an unknown dog than your own country's soldiers?

Originally Posted by GenkiSudo

Let me dissect your arguments then, with my poorly written english (I wish I could post as good in English as I do in Portuguese).
Its true that killing and wars as a whole are a horrible thing that can deeply disturb and affect our rationale. Thats true during the wars and even afterwards (Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)) and its a sad thing.
However, socially speaking, we cannot allow that to happen without judicial intervention. Thats why we arrest insane people. Thats why we persecute pedophiles who were molested when they were young, and thats why we persecute serial killers even if they suffered in the past, like Theodore Kaczynski (more known as the Unabomber).

Let me make it clear so that you understand what I'm trying to say: One thing is finding the reason behind these problems, like why SOME soldiers end up doing stupid shit... But the repercussions of such actions are another story completely and, IMHO, they cannot be despised or ignored. They should be punished according to the laws and rules that they swear to honor. Not all soldiers end up doing stupid shit like that. So those that do, should be judged by their actions.
And anger, revenge, bellicosity and pride cannot be used as self-sufficient justifications for going postal and killing innocent people, animals and fucking up everything in their path. Its not how it works and we should to our best to keep that from being socially accepted. We have rules. Once we break them, justice must be properly applied.




Wowa there... Wait a minute, don't go that way because thats a misconception. And a HELL of a dangerous misconception. Every single human being must be treated equally under Geneva Convention. It doesn't matter if they're nazis, Talibans, Russian Commies, Zapatista's army (EZLN) or Shaka Zulu's militia! Whatever! Even if they themselves don't follow the Geneva Convention, they MUST be treated like everybody else once they're unarmed and no long pose a direct threat. This is because the USA Marines need to oblige those international rules as they're part of a nation that has adopted those rules and cannot ignore them.
This is true whenever an unarmed and/or injured enemy is found, when he represents no direct threat. He then must be taken as a POW (Prisoner of war) and must be treated according to the Geneva Convention, where torture is not allowed! Thats why it was a scandal. Its not okay for the USA to ignore international laws. USA has the responsibility to take a stance and give the world the example on how it should be done: humanely and with justice. All of this by following the laws.

So again: Unarmed terrorists must be treated according to the laws. Animals must be treated according to the laws too. Any deviant behavior from a marine should be immediately prosecuted and condemned.
USA has the obligation to keep their soldiers in line.


Thats why the prevaricators must be condemned for their actions. Finding them and not doing anything must not be tolerated.
And theres no justification for allowing them to commit such atrocities. And thats what you (and many others) are trying to do, sadly.


You're a bit of mislead, aren't you? You're citing cultural differences while failing to recognize your own. And you're failing at animal rights, did you missed the information on animal rights in the USA?
It is a crime to kill certain animals in your country. You cannot torture or kill a dog without proper justification, let alone shooting them for fun.
And even if that marine was a Chinese soldier instead (as some Chinese regions are known for eating dogs) he still wouldn't be allowed do that under international laws because once you're on an international mission you have to obey them and restrict your actions to avoid as much collateral impact as you can. And thats where the UDAR also comes in.


Is it a crime If someone kills a member of your family in the desert (never to be seen again) while not being caught? You must understand basic logics.
Of course if they're not caught their actions will not be dealt with by the American justice. Thats true for any crime. But does that makes them OKAY in any way? no way.
Thats a very weak argument of yours, I must say. How old are you?
Thats why education is needed. And thats why these actions, when they're caught, must be condemned and they must pay for it.
But you seem like you're not even willing to make them responsible for their actions even if they're caught! how odd is that?!


Thats not true. Its like you're saying that they're mindless drones, killing machines that cannot even begin to follow the basics of honorable services such as "maintaining the peace", "bringing democracy" and "liberate the people".
Its your job to follow your instructions. And the orders are not to deliberately produce COLLATERAL DAMAGE, as much as I know! Soldiers are used to maintain peace too, how the hell do you fail to understand that? Come on, get out of that "praise the lord and pass the ammunition" mindset.
I've never seen a soldier getting a medal for killing more dogs than any other. What kind of sick game are you playing? Fallout 3?

THATS exactly what i thought.Aha. Nice. Yes, actually, one of the many goals of the marine corps is to train you to be the most effecive a your job, which is indeed maiming and killing. If they could achieve a perfectly mindless drone. They would. However, you are correct that we have things as lawful and unlawful orders that uses discrepency. But keep in mind you are talking about an EDITED video that had the sound of the dog yelping spliced in there to demonize the US Military. Oh blind one.


The reality is that laws must be obliged in any circumstances where they're applicable.
If thats not what's happening, then soldiers must be educated and prevaricators must continue be condemned for their actions. No one can be called a Hero if they fail at them. And the USA government must do anything in their power to get rid of such wicked men and women. Thats how you get a military made by MEN and WOMEN, not by pussies and criminals, they're a fucking disgrace to mankind and should not be allowed to carry guns around killing anything that moves. I don't know about you, but thats not the world I want. And fortunately the law is on my side.

One dead dog is hardly applicable.. Enough said.


All you need to do is take care of your mission and forget about the rest. Its not up to you to adopt some kind of Talion Law type of justice. Do your job only. And follow your rules. Just because your enemy doesn't follow the rules it doesn't mean that you can do the same. You're supposed to be bigger than that, if you want to be called an hero and receive medals, and stand up to modern laws, ethics and morals adopted by every developed society.


I dont give a shit if i am called a hero, stop generalizing. It seems like we are all guilty of that, but there is no excuse for this. Nobody says just because we have superior fire power and standards that we arent capable of comitting evil.

Nobody said that they're doing a good job at following laws, ethics and morals. I said: USA must give the example and stand up with a high moral stance. USA can not go as low as the terrorists to achieve their goals. That way USA's government will end up being as much of a criminal as their enemies. Get it now?

Like i said... One Marine doesn't represent the opinions and behavoirs of all. And again, since when are we sending our children to go blow themselves up? Nobody said we were being as criminal. Hence the lesser of two evils. I just said we have to take it down a notch on the saint scale. Intimidation is part of the battle.


What the fuck is your problem man? What do cats, dogs camels have to do with it? Now you crossed the border and you're not showing any rationale anymore. Thats a shameful thing to say... You should grow up, because that sounds totally childish to me... no offense.

Agin, intimidation. A good deterrence against anyone that would make enstating their government and helping their people WHO DONT want to fucking kill us easier. And you forget, i didnt say i agreed with them. I just said i didn't care and wouldnt say anything about unless asked. Read between the lines. Try a hand at war and see how well you do.

Thats another problem. Disrespectful Collateral Damage should also be prosecuted and condemned. American's shouldn't use illegal weaponry such as white phosphorus or cluster bombs on cities filled with civilians. Markets, schools, hospitals and other public buildings cannot be targeted as that is a violation of international laws!

Already said that they were prosecuted. Besides, the dog was already dead. No harm no foul. DERP. Casualties of war, not collateral damage.

And you forgot to say that evil cannot be considered the hero. I'd rather have another nation taking care of the situation then.

Thats hilarious. I would rather have another nation taking care of it to. We have things over here we need to do in america, instead of handing out charity to every fucked up country out there.



Its not just water boarding. And you're wrong. It is considered a torture and thats why the UN condemned it, and thats why Obama is closing it down.
End of story.

Originally Posted by Donseluke

IN the BIBLE it says GOD breathed LIFE into adam and EVE. BUT did not BREATH LIFE into animals. MEANING they Really have no soul. Barley a PERSONALITY.