Secret Santa 2024
The answer for the name of the thread is easy. Its Yes. Humans are worth more than anyone else. We are a smarter being with more abillities. But if it wasnt for us, the world wouldnt be so darn contaminated. It would work much better without us. Just saying. I still think about how the air must have been in the medieval time, or at Jesus' time. Try to imagine. We take the air we have now for normal. But its contaminated. So how must the former air have been?
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Air...it's really not that horrible. In many places yes there is a clusterfuck of pollution in the air but in places such as suburbs we really don't get it so bad.

Anyway, if Darwin's theory holds true, couldn't any animal have evolved and gained better abilities than ours?
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Originally Posted by Festus View Post
Anyway, if Darwin's theory holds true, couldn't any animal have evolved and gained better abilities than ours?

No, they couldn't, because what evolutionary path an organism takes is completely beyond it's control.

Besides, you seem to have a very narrow definition for "better". You certainly don't mean strength, or speed, or eyesight, or hearing, or sturdiness - plenty of species are far superior to us there. You probably mean our intelligence and ingenuity.

Intelligence is a great survival strategy, but it's not the only good one.
If a giant asteroid were to hit the Earth right now, guess who is going extinct? We are. Guess who is probably not going extinct? Numerous species of bacteria that live deep underground. Where will our survival strategy be then? Dead end. Another failed design to add to enormous pile of extinct species. However, if we are lucky and get plenty of time, we will probably develop resilience which will surpass even bacteria.
Last edited by Odlov; Mar 23, 2011 at 04:47 AM.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
He said morality, not mortality...

Oh! hah, had to go back and read it again -_- my bad, but thanks for pointing that out...

Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
We have a choice, but not in the sense many people like to imagine.
Under a given set of circumstances, we can only choose one course of action, which was determined by countless external and internal factors beyond our control.

Here is a good interview with a neuroscientist:
http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2008...-free-will-an/

Very interesting read. It does seem that the system holds onto morals and explains how we can be subjected to them as well as the law, but it doesn't account for irrational behavior, or actions motivated by emotions. As emotions are undoubtedly irrational, our selections of actions based on practical reasoning doesn't really hold together too well.

Originally Posted by Murmayder View Post
He is saying that sentience has nothing to do with free will. Moreover, Gorman clearly ignores the entire school of thought that is Determinism. To answer your question I would say this: "Stop it."

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

Originally Posted by Murmayder View Post
You will have to start asking for opinions rather than the answers, due to the subjectivity of morals and whether or not there can be a system of law/responsibility in a deterministic universe. That is, if we assume that God, being the only ultimate authority, isn't going to give us the answers himself.

That's exactly what I'm saying; because there is no overlying rule of morality, it's foundation is relative to the society. It changes over time, over distance, and even in varying degrees per person.
Using Odlov's link above, that system could account for morality. Whether or not I fully agree with it is a different issue.

Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
However, if we are lucky and get plenty of time, we will probably develop resilience which will surpass even bacteria.

We can hope =P
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There was actually another smart creature, when the homosapien was there. Which is us if anyone should not know. Anyways, it was actually smarter than us, and it had evolved much more. But because we were more and bigger than them, we kinda pwnt them. This is scientifically proven.
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Originally Posted by AikidoKP View Post
Very interesting read. It does seem that the system holds onto morals and explains how we can be subjected to them as well as the law, but it doesn't account for irrational behavior, or actions motivated by emotions. As emotions are undoubtedly irrational, our selections of actions based on practical reasoning doesn't really hold together too well.

Citing emotions as the offender is not that different from citing your whole brain as the offender. Your emotions are just like your reasoning ability: they are a part of your brain processes. You can't externalize them and point a finger. Not all computers are made equal. Some may need repair to function as desired; some can't be repaired.

The playing field is not equal, and neither are the players. Does it mean society can't judge and filter out hazardous agents? I don't think so. Life is not fair, and all we can do is try to deal with it.
Last edited by Odlov; Mar 23, 2011 at 02:25 PM.
I personally think that the humanbeeing has become an individualist. We all think to much about ourselfes. I am not accusing anyone for anything. This is just the human nature now a days. When Jesus was alife it was more about the society. He took the trash for everyone, and gave us a chance to start up a new life. We returned the favor by global warming, and an individualistic and contaminated world.
Last edited by NinjaBent; Mar 23, 2011 at 02:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
Citing emotions as the offender is not that different from citing your whole brain as the offender. Your emotions are just like your reasoning ability: they are a part of your brain processes. You can't externalize them and point a finger. Not all computers are made equal. Some may need repair to function as desired; some can't be repaired.

The playing field is not equal, and neither are the players. Does it mean society can't judge and filter out hazardous agents? I don't think so. Life is not fair, and all we can do is try to deal with it.

I'm not taking them as an external force, I'm just saying that some, if not the majority of people today are motivated by emotions. Most of the time, for most people, it's guided by emotions, love, hate, joy, sorrow, the list goes on, but very rarely do you see someone motivated by pure reason.
Now, having read over the article again, this doesn't necessarily defeat what's being said, it just places a new twist on it.
Honestly, I like it, it's a really interesting topic, and I find myself agreeing with it the more I look into it.
But, the way our society works, by saying that we can judge and filter out hazardous agents, would you mean that we are within our rights to exile or dispose of irrational people? If so, on what basis do we define irrational? (The opposite of rational, yes I know.) What I mean is, if it's the majorities decision, then it seems like a certain religion will win out over the rest, and will have the ability to deem those who do not conform to their beliefs as irrational people.
It's a different topic, but what I'm trying to say is we should try to keep freedom of speech and ideas.

Originally Posted by NinjaBent View Post
I personally think that the humanbeeing has become an individualist. We all think to much about ourselfes. I am not accusing anyone for anything. This is just the human nature now a days. When Jesus was alife it was more about the society. He took the trash for everyone, and gave us a chance to start up a new life. We returned the favor by global warming, and an individualistic and contaminated world.

The "god" justification makes this topic a bit more boring, unless you're willing to defend your views.
I'm not religious but when you said this one thing popped into mind.
"If we don't sin, Jesus died for nothing."
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I know it's true because it says so right here in this signature.
Originally Posted by AikidoKP View Post
I'm not taking them as an external force, I'm just saying that some, if not the majority of people today are motivated by emotions. Most of the time, for most people, it's guided by emotions, love, hate, joy, sorrow, the list goes on, but very rarely do you see someone motivated by pure reason.

Indeed, I would even add that reason is not a driving force at all.
Reason is just a means for achieving goals we find emotionally and physically satisfying.

But, the way our society works, by saying that we can judge and filter out hazardous agents, would you mean that we are within our rights to exile or dispose of irrational people?

Rights...rights and responsibilities are people's inventions, no matter how entitled we may feel to some of them. Over here you have these rights; over there you don't.

What I meant by filtering out hazards is imprisoning criminals.

If so, on what basis do we define irrational? (The opposite of rational, yes I know.) What I mean is, if it's the majorities decision, then it seems like a certain religion will win out over the rest, and will have the ability to deem those who do not conform to their beliefs as irrational people.
It's a different topic, but what I'm trying to say is we should try to keep freedom of speech and ideas.

I don't disagree.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
Indeed, I would even add that reason is not a driving force at all.
Reason is just a means for achieving goals we find emotionally and physically satisfying.

Ah, so an opposition to Plato's view then (Forgot who said it first... Hobbes?)
I don't know how much I can say against it, I do agree with the "Reason only serves to help us gain what our passion and will strive for." idea. That might not be the exact wording, but you get the point.

Rights...rights and responsibilities are people's inventions, no matter how entitled we may feel to some of them. Over here you have these rights; over there you don't.

What I meant by filtering out hazards is imprisoning criminals.

Again, I completely agree, but it still runs into problems. Such as the multiculturalism sprouting up in Western countries; some minorities feel their group is being suppressed, and it's their "right" to hold onto their culture/religion/views even though they chose to move away from them. But again, different issue.

The problem with filtering out hazards, is it's just that those in power, as you said, hold their own view of right and wrong, of personal "rights and responsibilities". If they've been given the power to decide, then anyone who holds different views can be prosecuted. Take the witch hunts back in the day, or the 'holy' wars going on today.
-- Jet -- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. --
[Secret]AikidoKP

Cogito ergo sum. I think therefor I exist.

I know it's true because it says so right here in this signature.