HTOTM: FUSION
Long story short, there is no evidence showing that Zimmerman was in trouble, his own lawyers left him for a good reason.

I don't really feel like getting in a debate atm (Mainly because I'm tired right now) with someone who is already sent on the other opinion and someone who thinks the media is a threat to us all.
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Originally Posted by Acesonnall View Post
Long story short, there is no evidence showing that Zimmerman was in trouble, his own lawyers left him for a good reason.

I don't really feel like getting in a debate atm (Mainly because I'm tired right now) with someone who is already sent on the other opinion and someone who thinks the media is a threat to us all.

I don't get what you mean by "Zimmerman was in trouble" so I'll leave that alone but his lawyers left him since they couldn't come into contact with him physically (I believe they had his number though) and because Zimmerman tried to contact the prosecutor which was against the lawyers' advice.

Also, I'm not necessarily "sent on the other opinion." I'm a lot more open minded than you think. I was simply giving another perspective of the case (playing Devil's Advocate if you will) along with introducing some facts that are not commonly known. And I never said the media is a threat to us all. From what you said, it sounded as if you believed everything the media has to say is the truth. I told you that their views are biased.

No need to debate though. After all, everything we would be debating about would mostly be speculation at this point.
Originally Posted by Nightin View Post
Because nowadays racism is hyped to be THE worst crime you can commit, nevermind that the definition was so skewed no one even knows what it means anymore. SEE: Bobby Fischer. A brilliant man that was completely dismissed by the media and others simply because he were 'racist'.

...
Bobby Fischer publicly announced his hatred of Jews, endorsed Hitler, denied the Holocaust, and also agreed with conspiracy theories involving a Jewish new world order. He was a veritable neo-nazi.

He's great at chess, so he gets to be a vicious, delusional lunatic and the media should continue to put his message out? No. Maybe racism is exaggerated, but if you believe he should be allowed a legitimate platform you are as crazy as he is.
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I hate it when someone posts completely disregarding all previous and currently ongoing arguments in the thread already, but I'm going to do it anyways.

First of all, I'd like to say that I haven't really been doing any digging on this case, so if anyone can bring in some more information, or refute my points so well, my opinions are subject to change.

Alright, down to the naughty business.

So, this big deal about racism in this case. My thoughts on this are short and simple. Do you really think Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black?
I think not. Zimmerman shot Martin because he thought he was a delinquent up to no good. It is true that Martin's ethnicity could have a lot to do with this, but it isn't why Zimmerman shot him. Zimmerman is not a racist (at least, that I have seen in the information about the case). What Zimmerman is, is paranoid. Zimmerman is a self appointed neighborhood watch leader with a gun. He has called 911 fourty-six times.

He was obviously looking for a reason to use his weapon, and to flaunt his "authority."

That's all from me for now. Feel free to reply and rebut
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Originally Posted by RayA75 View Post
I hate it when someone posts completely disregarding all previous and currently ongoing arguments in the thread already, but I'm going to do it anyways.

First of all, I'd like to say that I haven't really been doing any digging on this case, so if anyone can bring in some more information, or refute my points so well, my opinions are subject to change.

Alright, down to the naughty business.

So, this big deal about racism in this case. My thoughts on this are short and simple. Do you really think Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black?
I think not. Zimmerman shot Martin because he thought he was a delinquent up to no good. It is true that Martin's ethnicity could have a lot to do with this, but it isn't why Zimmerman shot him. Zimmerman is not a racist (at least, that I have seen in the information about the case). What Zimmerman is, is paranoid. Zimmerman is a self appointed neighborhood watch leader with a gun. He has called 911 fourty-six times.

He was obviously looking for a reason to use his weapon, and to flaunt his "authority."

That's all from me for now. Feel free to reply and rebut

I truly hate that as well, when people just read the topic post and post right after and sorry if that was me, but first

@DaNooB23: Believe me, I know what it means and how it feels to be open minded, but at this point in time it seems like you are just accepting of every single thought (Not even facts). Sure he could have been in trouble, but the fact of the matter is that he wasn't. The boy was screaming on the tape, his mother says it was him, but then again, she's his mother. You say that the paramedics tended to Zimmerman, but if they did, where are his scars? You also don't trust the media at all, but then a again you just sourced something from the media and the worst media you could ever source was Fox News!

I don't know why you were glad that what I said was funny to me, but that's a fact. They told him not to approach Trayvon, and he did, therefore he put his life at risk even when told not to.

Haha, and you say he could have been stopping another burglary? Dude, that's like me seeing you wearing a hood with some rainbow candy in your hand and shooting you just like that because you looked suspicious. Try again.

If you keep accepting every thought you have (Even the invalid ones as it seems), then I'm going to think that you probably were okay with the death of Caylee in the Casey Anthony case because maybe she really didn't do it even though all the facts were against her.
------------------------------------------
@Ray: I'm more concerned about the law that allowed for this, the law is clearly flawed and needs to be reformed or repealed. Race will always play a factor whether it be the prominent cause or not because it's just a part of life that shouldn't be.

When we think of a white man, some people (Not me, just the stereotype) tend to think wealthy, ignorant to the world around them, and racist and then proceed to factor that into their daily life (Arguments, life style, etc). When we think of a black man, some people tend to think Kool-Aid, Crimes, Big and mean, dumb and factor that into their daily life. When people think of Asians, they tend to think smart, but ignorant to the world around them, eyes, small genitals, angry, and white mans best friend and proceed to factor that. You can pretty much fill in the rest.

The point here is race can't be the sole determining factor as it most always plays out in what people do. Knowing if it was a racial crime or not helps to solve the case quicker, but it could also not have been a racial crime. One really can't tell if it was premeditated (Racial crimes are usually premeditated) unless he literally mentioned somewhere, "I'm going to kill a black man today."
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Originally Posted by Acesonnall View Post
@Ray: I'm more concerned about the law that allowed for this, the law is clearly flawed and needs to be reformed or repealed. Race will always play a factor whether it be the prominent cause or not because it's just a part of life that shouldn't be.

How is the law clearly flawed here? Please elaborate. In this case, race doesn't appear to be the prominent cause, only a minor causal factor. Martin's race didn't make Zimmerman shoot him, it's Zimmerman's paranoia that caused him to be so trigger happy.
When we think of a white man, some people (Not me, just the stereotype) tend to think wealthy, ignorant to the world around them, and racist and then proceed to factor that into their daily life (Arguments, life style, etc). When we think of a black man, some people tend to think Kool-Aid, Crimes, Big and mean, dumb and factor that into their daily life. When people think of Asians, they tend to think smart, but ignorant to the world around them, eyes, small genitals, angry, and white mans best friend and proceed to factor that. You can pretty much fill in the rest.

Lol. The only thing you talk about here is what you said in the first line, stereotypes. It is true that these stereotypes are racist, but it is not racism that law deals with. Racism that law needs to be concerned about is hateful prejudice against other ethnicities.
The point here is race can't be the sole determining factor as it most always plays out in what people do. Knowing if it was a racial crime or not helps to solve the case quicker, but it could also not have been a racial crime. One really can't tell if it was premeditated (Racial crimes are usually premeditated) unless he literally mentioned somewhere, "I'm going to kill a black man today."

Like I said, someone who would say that he wants to kill a black man is hatefully prejudiced against black people. He is not stereotypical. Stereotypes don't really matter in law (unless like we've seen here, in which Martin's race probably affected Zimmerman's perception of him as some sort of gangbanger delinquent up to no good, but this is minor and irrelevant).
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No I'm not saying it was because of race, I was just explaining how race played out as a minor factor. I didn't only mention stereotypes as "crime" is not just a stereotype, some people really get a reason to be scared or paranoid because of the stereotype.

The law is flawed because it's telling you that you can shoot anyone you like provided they gave you a reason to feel threatened by them at current the time. Think about it, is that the best way to solve the problem? That's why it took so long for Zimmerman to get charged.

Thinking outside the box (As DaNooB23 calls it), Zimmerman could have also possibly planned to use this law as his backbone to carrying out the act knowing full well that it would get off the hook. But, there's not enough proof for that.
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for 70% of the posts above mine: tl;dr. I'm probably reasserting what someone has already said...

This is an example of a non-race related incident being warped to involve race. /Story.

Directed at a few things I read:
Cocacobra: Mint on a stick... What?

Something that just came to mind after rereading: Zimmerman or whatever the fuck his name was was injured too. Have you ever tried to make yourself look like someone hit you? It's really fucking hard. Unless one suffers from severe depression (and even then), when one tries to hurt oneself, they pull back... unless they're enraged, and then their blows are directed outward, I.E. a wall. I've never heard someone getting pissed off and breaking their nose. (I know Mr Zimmerman's nose wasn't broken; it was an example.)

Yes, the media warps most of what you've heard. Look at Kony for a prime example. Pretty soon, people'll catch on with Trayvon like they did with Kony:
Step one- bandwagon.
Step two- side with the smart people who saw through the bandwagon.

Oh, another thing. Zimmerman wasn't your southern hick, raised by backwoods inbreds who spew racism and bigotry. He was hispanic, most likely meaning he himself was the victim of racism at one point or another. Just a minor assumption on my part: He'd be a lot less racist than a white cop. I'm just going out on a bit of a limb there.

Aces, you said something about he didn't get helped out of the cop car... You don't need to be carried off to Valhalla in the arms of a pig because of a punch in the face. I'm pretty sure a bloody nose didn't cripple his ability to walk.

Well, that's enough of my ramblings for now.
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Find some history of Zimmerman having a racist history, maybe then I'll buy the race card. Right now, everyone is saying "He's a racist!" with no proof. It's not like you wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I hate black people today." He'd either have a history of it in some sort or another, a recent incident, most likely involving a multitude of dark skinned people, or, what I think is most likely, race wasn't involved.
Last edited by Alaistier; Apr 19, 2012 at 12:41 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
I pretty much agree with what Alaistier said.

Race is a minuscule if not non-existent factor in this issue.

The law is flawed because it's telling you that you can shoot anyone you like provided they gave you a reason to feel threatened by them at current the time. Think about it, is that the best way to solve the problem? That's why it took so long for Zimmerman to get charged.

I'd like a definition of this said law, but I'll work off your assessment.

To an extent, I agree with you. When in a life or death situation, lethal force is entirely dependent on that situation. I don't know enough about the circumstances to say whether lethal force is justified. Self defense would explain why he shot Martin, but not justify it. It also wouldn't justify the fact that he ran down the street with a gun.

This isn't something an overruling law can be made about, just as you can't say "Whenever you feel threatened, just shoot the bastards threatening you."
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Originally Posted by Acesonnall View Post
@DaNooB23: Believe me, I know what it means and how it feels to be open minded, but at this point in time it seems like you are just accepting of every single thought (Not even facts). Sure he could have been in trouble, but the fact of the matter is that he wasn't. The boy was screaming on the tape, his mother says it was him, but then again, she's his mother. You say that the paramedics tended to Zimmerman, but if they did, where are his scars? You also don't trust the media at all, but then a again you just sourced something from the media and the worst media you could ever source was Fox News!

Im accepting of every single thought? I maybe I am, but that does mean I don't have my own thoughts on what might have happened. I just haven't revealed them since its pure speculation. I'll be more willing to share my thoughts on this matter once I've heard Zimmerman's side of the story. And should I reject every single thought? Or just reject ones that don't agree with my point of view?
Also, the video that I was talking about (not sure if I linked you to the actual video) can be found everywhere. There is also an official version of that video floating around the interwebs which was released (leaked?) from the precinct where the video took place.

Originally Posted by Acesonnall View Post
I don't know why you were glad that what I said was funny to me, but that's a fact. They told him not to approach Trayvon, and he did, therefore he put his life at risk even when told not to.

Haha, and you say he could have been stopping another burglary? Dude, that's like me seeing you wearing a hood with some rainbow candy in your hand and shooting you just like that because you looked suspicious. Try again.

More info for you:
There were 8 burglaries in the 15 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting. According to the same exact source, they were all committed by young black males. (Source)

Now, if you were in that neighborhood late at night, and you saw a suspicious young black male that you don't recall living in that area, what would you think? After the past 8 burglaries being committed by persons with similar characteristics what would you think?
Originally Posted by Acesonnall View Post
If you keep accepting every thought you have (Even the invalid ones as it seems), then I'm going to think that you probably were okay with the death of Caylee in the Casey Anthony case because maybe she really didn't do it even though all the facts were against her.

Really? Haha.


Honestly, all I want to find out is what happened during the altercation that took place. And if there are any medical reports as well.
Last edited by DaNooB23; Apr 19, 2012 at 01:09 PM.