a soul is something figurative that makes us who we are, our brain is just hardware, while our soul is a collective thing from processing our information and experiences. or something
monism basically says that if my one brain molecule or whatthefuckever was slightly the left, id be a different person, which is stupid, i am who i am because of me, my experiences and whatever, im not who i am because of maths and science.
bash me in the head and i have less hardware to process with, but that doesnt make me less of a person than i was, it just limits my capabilities.
although, monism has a few merits
what happens with the whole left/right side of the brain? creative people use the right side more and maths people use the left more. creativity is part of who a person is, and thats determined by the hemisphere of the brain?
and getting drunk? its a chemical reaction, but my soul changes a fair bit with every drink i have, how can a physical reaction have an effect on something that isnt quite physical?
eh, we are who we are, soul and brain are the same thing, souls are just an abstract thing that is us.
theres just more to our brains than we understand, whatever
monism basically says that if my one brain molecule or whatthefuckever was slightly the left, id be a different person, which is stupid, i am who i am because of me, my experiences and whatever, im not who i am because of maths and science.
bash me in the head and i have less hardware to process with, but that doesnt make me less of a person than i was, it just limits my capabilities.
although, monism has a few merits
what happens with the whole left/right side of the brain? creative people use the right side more and maths people use the left more. creativity is part of who a person is, and thats determined by the hemisphere of the brain?
and getting drunk? its a chemical reaction, but my soul changes a fair bit with every drink i have, how can a physical reaction have an effect on something that isnt quite physical?
eh, we are who we are, soul and brain are the same thing, souls are just an abstract thing that is us.
theres just more to our brains than we understand, whatever
-=Art is never finished, only abandoned=-
One molecul would hardly affect you, genes are what matter. With other genes you'd be another person. Hormones affect your personality heavily. The environment you live in and the experiences you have affect your personality.
For example, they just found out that men in native tribes in South American countries tend to produce only 30% of the testosterone men in modern industrialized countries do produce.
They adapted to an environment that provides less food so they can't get as muscular as they could get in other environments.
That affected both their personalities and their physique.
The mind body problem is only a problem when you try to make the psyche of a human being supernatural, which does not seem evident to me.
The operating system of a computer is what it is because of maths and science. Bash it's hardware and it will still be the operating system it is, possibly with less capabilities.
You see, that argument doesn't really work.
Even a supernatural thing would need some sort of power/energy in order to be able to affect anything in the universe. That power/energy could be determined.
Also, neurology and psychology are very different subjects.
One deals with anatomy, the nervous system etc and the other one deals with the human mind, behaviour patterns etc.
If you want to determine the behaviour of a group of people who interact with each other you got into the psychological field.
If you want to find out why people get alzheimer's and similar diseases you got into the neurological field.
For example, they just found out that men in native tribes in South American countries tend to produce only 30% of the testosterone men in modern industrialized countries do produce.
They adapted to an environment that provides less food so they can't get as muscular as they could get in other environments.
That affected both their personalities and their physique.
The mind body problem is only a problem when you try to make the psyche of a human being supernatural, which does not seem evident to me.
The operating system of a computer is what it is because of maths and science. Bash it's hardware and it will still be the operating system it is, possibly with less capabilities.
You see, that argument doesn't really work.
Even a supernatural thing would need some sort of power/energy in order to be able to affect anything in the universe. That power/energy could be determined.
Also, neurology and psychology are very different subjects.
One deals with anatomy, the nervous system etc and the other one deals with the human mind, behaviour patterns etc.
If you want to determine the behaviour of a group of people who interact with each other you got into the psychological field.
If you want to find out why people get alzheimer's and similar diseases you got into the neurological field.
Last edited by Redundant; Apr 20, 2012 at 11:49 PM.
How are you?
Originally Posted by BenDover
a soul is something figurative that makes us who we are, our brain is just hardware, while our soul is a collective thing from processing our information and experiences. or something
monism basically says that if my one brain molecule or whatthefuckever was slightly the left, id be a different person, which is stupid, i am who i am because of me, my experiences and whatever, im not who i am because of maths and science.
bash me in the head and i have less hardware to process with, but that doesnt make me less of a person than i was, it just limits my capabilities.
Personality isn't something that is argued in this argument, intellect is. I'm quite sure that personality is a subject of the material, of genes.
although, monism has a few merits
what happens with the whole left/right side of the brain? creative people use the right side more and maths people use the left more. creativity is part of who a person is, and thats determined by the hemisphere of the brain?
and getting drunk? its a chemical reaction, but my soul changes a fair bit with every drink i have, how can a physical reaction have an effect on something that isnt quite physical?
A dualist would say that since our intellect is dependent on the brain, and the brain can be affected by the material, our intellect and use thereof can be affected by the material. Also, none of these things are conceptual thought.
eh, we are who we are, soul and brain are the same thing, souls are just an abstract thing that is us.
theres just more to our brains than we understand, whatever
The soul is not simply an abstract thing that is us; the soul is an immaterial thing that makes human kind's intellectual thought unique and quantitatively and qualitatively different than any kind of life we have encountered yet.
Originally Posted by Redundant
The mind body problem is only a problem when you try to make the psyche of a human being supernatural, which does not seem evident to me.
At least conceptual thought. See, we haven't found how the brain can conceptually think. We have only found the brain's processes concerning sense perception, imagination, and memory.
The operating system of a computer is what it is because of maths and science. Bash it's hardware and it will still be the operating system it is, possibly with less capabilities.
You see, that argument doesn't really work.
Except we haven't found how our intellect works mathematically or scientifically.
Even a supernatural thing would need some sort of power/energy in order to be able to affect anything in the universe. That power/energy could be determined.
How are you able to say that? Again, this argument isn't about how the soul affects the brain, but that it does. We don't know how the immaterial works, but we know that it must.
Also, neurology and psychology are very different subjects.
One deals with anatomy, the nervous system etc and the other one deals with the human mind, behaviour patterns etc.
If you want to determine the behaviour of a group of people who interact with each other you got into the psychological field.
If you want to find out why people get alzheimer's and similar diseases you got into the neurological field.
You are very right, but it is a Monist's position that the mind is a product of anatomy. If we can dig into anatomy, we can dig into conceptually thought.
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Uh, various animals show signs of intelligence.
Humans may be on a higher level but they surely are not unique, not even on this planet.
History shows that many things that have been called supernatural before because they are not scientifically explained yet are perfectly fine natural processes.
It is evident to me that supernatural things, if they exist, don't affect us directly.
vOv
edit: How are you going to fit dualism into the theory of evolution btw?
Only humans have a soul because they are intelligent, did god just randomly give it to them when they, say, created the wheel or something? ;o
Humans may be on a higher level but they surely are not unique, not even on this planet.
History shows that many things that have been called supernatural before because they are not scientifically explained yet are perfectly fine natural processes.
It is evident to me that supernatural things, if they exist, don't affect us directly.
vOv
edit: How are you going to fit dualism into the theory of evolution btw?
Only humans have a soul because they are intelligent, did god just randomly give it to them when they, say, created the wheel or something? ;o
Last edited by Redundant; Apr 21, 2012 at 01:11 AM.
How are you?
Originally Posted by sireal
I can't agree with a 'immaterial soul' since you can't have something without matter, it has to physically exist. The only thing that I could think of being close to it would be the messenger particles of gravity and light - graviton and photon, they have no mass (or atleast, all the evidence points to them having no mass, reason being is you can't move at the speed of light if you have mass at rest, and gravity moves at the speed of light according to general relativity.) but that is nothing close to a soul.
Actually, photons have no mass, which explains about every aspect of their behaviour. There are a few odd things, though, which make it seem like photons have mass, such as being influenced by gravity.
And gravitons are hypothetical particles. It's just one explanation of gravity, which is not generally accepted.
Ray: I've seen animals mentioned before in this thread a few times. Do you believe a soul is exclusive to humans? If so, why do humans have a soul and animals don't. If no, how do animals like jellyfish ( no real brain) interact with this soul.
I think, for a theïst, it's a tad weird to assume "God" thought only humans were worthy of a soul, but it's more weird if you assume duality without a God, but think only humans have a soul.
As an atheist and physicist I am a monist. It's not exclusively the brain cells that determine your thoughts. Hormones and other factors do play along as well, although the effect of hormones has been proven and is generally accepted, also among dualists. The effect of hormones on the intellect can of course be explained with the same argument Ray used to explain alcohol.
I think science can't explain everything. The reason for this is because most experiments on humans are not repeatable in the way that you can repeat an experiment for things like gravity. Humans change too much.
Thanks for the Avatar, MrAakash
