Originally Posted by
PVPPRO
Lets start with time. Time is infinite. In the past, and in the future. For something does not simply just exist and create life. But then again, it is not. Nothing would exist if history was infinite. But what could actually "start" time? Time cannot be produced, touched, seen or smelled. In theory, time is impossible. A god is impossible. Matter is impossible. If there were nothing to start with, would we have what we have now? Yet, it is not impossible; we are here, living, breathing. You said, quote, "quite frankly, the nothing-to-matter jump is a lot more plausible than the nothing-to-supernatural-being-to-matter jump." This is wrong. All religions state that their god has lived forever, infinitely. What makes more sense? Supernatural-being -to-supernatural-being+universe? Or nothing-at-all-to-the-universe? A supernatural being has infinite abilities, right? He/she might, say, create this illusion known as time? Did the big bang create time? For any mix of any kind of matter, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE TIME. To have life, you must need time. Anything to add?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God
This same debate has continued since there were beings. Read up. Every statement is arguable and can be defeated, only for that one to be defeated by another. Thus the cycle continues.
Woah boy, I'm not even sure I can deal with the amount of logical fallacies committed here. I'll give it a shot.
First, you still ignore the circular logic problem of religion says religion is true, therefore religion is true. Technically, I could stop right here because you've already invalidated your entire argument because of a logical fallacy. But I'll continue.
Second, time is the framework of a dimension. You exist along the line known as time, frequently addressed as the 4th dimension when it comes to most multi-dimensional theories. Time stretches out into infinity, and it has existed for an eternity. There is no point where time suddenly started occurring because by the mere definition of time within dimensional framework is that it is infinite in both directions, it has no start or end points. So now your basis that something needed to create time is now null because you've already used improper information. Technically, I could stop right here because you've invalidated your entire argument because of false information. But I'll continue.
Third, you've taken my own words and interpreted them horribly incorrectly. So I'll say it again. Assuming that there was nothing in the beginning, which I don't assume because matter is almost certainly constant, but none the less ASSUMING that there was nothing, there's the basic question of the order of progression. If there is nothing, by order of progression what should come next is the thing of lowest, but greater, value. An omnipotent being would not suddenly come out of nothing, because that would imply omnipotence is the next step up from nothing. Which is highly illogical. Technically, I could stop right here because you've invalidated your entire argument because of false interpretation. But I'll continue.
Fourth, time is a dimension. To imply that a dimension is impossible to create is to deny the very concept of dimensions. You can create a line. That line is, in a very long stretch, the first dimension. Now create a second line and connect the end points. You've now created, again using extreme leeway, a second dimension. Now extend that shape outwards into a direction along a different plane. You've now created a third dimension. Now take that third dimension, and observe it's progression over time. It only progresses at a set rate, neither going faster or slower through time. Time is therefore observable as a line to the third dimension, which implies that time is the fourth dimension. Merely through existence of an object, a dimension has been created. So rather than your claim you need time to create life, you actually need matter to create time. And if time is infinite, then it implies that matter has existed for eternity.
Technically, I can stop right here because there's nothing more for me to invalidate. But I'll be nice and restate the gist of this in one nice short paragraph.
You can't use circular logic and expect anybody to take you seriously. You can't make claims about time not existing without first understanding what time is. You can't ignore an order of progression from simplicity to complexity. And if time is infinite, then by the definition of time, matter is constant.