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There is no "gay gene" just as much as there is no "black gene" or "smart gene". Genetics is a complicated field where several small changes within the human genome can result in absolutely no difference, or a disastrous mutation.

Also, if it's impossible to base something's occurrence on biology because of a lack of genetic information, then the entire biology field is null and void. You're using very juvenile logic of you need to understand everything about a system to understand a small part of it. A child can learn basic addition without knowing calculus; a scientist can determine the extent of biological or environmental correlation without understanding the genetics. A very simple one would be identical twins. Identical twins are more likely than fraternal twins to share the same sexuality, who in turn are more likely than related siblings to share the same sexuality. Even when raised in separate environments, identical twins share their sexuality just as frequently than if they were raised together. The evidence to support a strong biological influence has been coming out steadily for a while now.

And using your logic, more individuals would have been homosexual in ancient times, as consensual homosexual relationships were not only common, but encouraged among males for the sake of developing "brotherhood". However, history shows that humanity not only survived through the ancient era, but didn't even have a decrease in population attributable to a lack of mating.

In addition, males will get an erection from having their prostate massaged. It's an organ that is not reachable except by sticking something into a male's anus. Using your logic, all males who receive a prostate exam are at risk of "contracting" homosexuality. Using your logic, people who masturbate extensively will become homosexual because they achieve pleasure through somebody of their own gender. The environment has routinely been proven to have little correlation with instances of homosexuality. You assume it does though, and fail to bring up proof to defend it. No matter how weak my evidence is, it's stronger than your base-less assumptions.

Homosexual relationships are documented in animal species. Look it up. There are animals that go their whole lives without mating with the other gender, and instead have a steady partner with another animal of the same gender.
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Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
You know, it's funny what pops up when you actually try to google stuff...

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

1,500 species. Enough examples yet?

Would those species last long if they practiced homosexuality regularly? To reproduce, you need a sperm and an egg. Not a sperm and another sperm. If homosexuality was a regular thing, the population would rapidly decrease.

Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
Ever thought that maybe existence of matter didn't suddenly come out of nowhere, and that it was there all along? You assume that there is nothing first, which is the first fundamental flaw of religious logic. It assumed there was nothing, so therefore something had to create something. But if matter is a constant, then the need for something to create matter is non-existent.

So to say that god created everything, you would first have to prove that there was indeed actually nothing at some point. And you would have to prove that it would be impossible otherwise for matter to have arisen from such an environment without the influence of a god. AND you would have to disprove the paradox of, if nothing existed, then a god should not exist either. AND you would then have to explain why a god would suddenly be created out of nothing before matter would (). Needless to say, your work is cut out for you.

You can't start an argument for religion and then use religion to prove your religion is right. That's circular logic at its worst. You have to be able to prove that your religion can be validated outside of it's own existence. Simply put, you can't say religion is right because religion says it's right.

Lets start with time. Time is infinite. In the past, and in the future. For something does not simply just exist and create life. But then again, it is not. Nothing would exist if history was infinite. But what could actually "start" time? Time cannot be produced, touched, seen or smelled. In theory, time is impossible. A god is impossible. Matter is impossible. If there were nothing to start with, would we have what we have now? Yet, it is not impossible; we are here, living, breathing. You said, quote, "quite frankly, the nothing-to-matter jump is a lot more plausible than the nothing-to-supernatural-being-to-matter jump." This is wrong. All religions state that their god has lived forever, infinitely. What makes more sense? Supernatural-being -to-supernatural-being+universe? Or nothing-at-all-to-the-universe? A supernatural being has infinite abilities, right? He/she might, say, create this illusion known as time? Did the big bang create time? For any mix of any kind of matter, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE TIME. To have life, you must need time. Anything to add?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

This same debate has continued since there were beings. Read up. Every statement is arguable and can be defeated, only for that one to be defeated by another. Thus the cycle continues.
Last edited by PVPPRO; May 29, 2013 at 10:06 AM.
"People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people."
I am confused…
do you argue with evolution against homosexuality? Because that kind of contradicts itself.


Also, your understanding of time and physics is a joke.

edit: I suggest you read up on the theory of relativity.
Last edited by Sacrafan; May 29, 2013 at 10:15 AM.
nigerian PM
Never said how long the race could last. I posted that as proof that it DOES happen and is even documented as well.
Uhmm... I'm confused. What the heck are you guys talking about?
"they're like enormous pillows of disgusting girly meat" ~Orih 2016
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Originally Posted by PVPPRO View Post
Lets start with time. Time is infinite. In the past, and in the future. For something does not simply just exist and create life. But then again, it is not. Nothing would exist if history was infinite. But what could actually "start" time? Time cannot be produced, touched, seen or smelled. In theory, time is impossible. A god is impossible. Matter is impossible. If there were nothing to start with, would we have what we have now? Yet, it is not impossible; we are here, living, breathing. You said, quote, "quite frankly, the nothing-to-matter jump is a lot more plausible than the nothing-to-supernatural-being-to-matter jump." This is wrong. All religions state that their god has lived forever, infinitely. What makes more sense? Supernatural-being -to-supernatural-being+universe? Or nothing-at-all-to-the-universe? A supernatural being has infinite abilities, right? He/she might, say, create this illusion known as time? Did the big bang create time? For any mix of any kind of matter, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE TIME. To have life, you must need time. Anything to add?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

This same debate has continued since there were beings. Read up. Every statement is arguable and can be defeated, only for that one to be defeated by another. Thus the cycle continues.

Woah boy, I'm not even sure I can deal with the amount of logical fallacies committed here. I'll give it a shot.

First, you still ignore the circular logic problem of religion says religion is true, therefore religion is true. Technically, I could stop right here because you've already invalidated your entire argument because of a logical fallacy. But I'll continue.

Second, time is the framework of a dimension. You exist along the line known as time, frequently addressed as the 4th dimension when it comes to most multi-dimensional theories. Time stretches out into infinity, and it has existed for an eternity. There is no point where time suddenly started occurring because by the mere definition of time within dimensional framework is that it is infinite in both directions, it has no start or end points. So now your basis that something needed to create time is now null because you've already used improper information. Technically, I could stop right here because you've invalidated your entire argument because of false information. But I'll continue.

Third, you've taken my own words and interpreted them horribly incorrectly. So I'll say it again. Assuming that there was nothing in the beginning, which I don't assume because matter is almost certainly constant, but none the less ASSUMING that there was nothing, there's the basic question of the order of progression. If there is nothing, by order of progression what should come next is the thing of lowest, but greater, value. An omnipotent being would not suddenly come out of nothing, because that would imply omnipotence is the next step up from nothing. Which is highly illogical. Technically, I could stop right here because you've invalidated your entire argument because of false interpretation. But I'll continue.

Fourth, time is a dimension. To imply that a dimension is impossible to create is to deny the very concept of dimensions. You can create a line. That line is, in a very long stretch, the first dimension. Now create a second line and connect the end points. You've now created, again using extreme leeway, a second dimension. Now extend that shape outwards into a direction along a different plane. You've now created a third dimension. Now take that third dimension, and observe it's progression over time. It only progresses at a set rate, neither going faster or slower through time. Time is therefore observable as a line to the third dimension, which implies that time is the fourth dimension. Merely through existence of an object, a dimension has been created. So rather than your claim you need time to create life, you actually need matter to create time. And if time is infinite, then it implies that matter has existed for eternity.

Technically, I can stop right here because there's nothing more for me to invalidate. But I'll be nice and restate the gist of this in one nice short paragraph.

You can't use circular logic and expect anybody to take you seriously. You can't make claims about time not existing without first understanding what time is. You can't ignore an order of progression from simplicity to complexity. And if time is infinite, then by the definition of time, matter is constant.
nyan :3
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Originally Posted by JayStar
Assuming that was the only view of religion I've provided throughout the thread.

It doesn't matter what else you've said, until you discredit the statements you have previously made they still are represented as your opinion.

I do not think highly of someone who uses his religion or lack thereof to denigrate others.

Originally Posted by JayStar
Enter Quantum Mechanics... the 'theoretical' side to physics.

No, quantum mechanics still has nothing to do with the explanation of the origins or eternal existence of the universe. In fact, physics in general doesn't have much to do with this, as incredibly little is known. That is why these questions are examined in the philosophical realm, not the scientific one.

Originally Posted by JayStar
I would agree, but I see no mountain of evidence. I see some flimsy statistics. Until the "gay gene" is discovered, and the human genome is completely decoded, there really is no way to prove that homosexuality exists in our genes.

Peer-reviewed papers from professional biologists working at universities, so flimsy: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0616122106.htm
http://books.google.ca/books?id=EftT...page&q&f=false
http://phys.org/news164376975.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/07/ar...-its-name.html
Originally Posted by JayStar
In a case like sexuality, I'd say environmental experiences are going to be an effect, much more than any genetic disposition.

Modern medicine and well, literally all of biology disagrees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
Originally Posted by JayStar
And don't tell me it occurs in nature, I don't care.

But you literally just complained about it being unnatural.
Originally Posted by JayStar
Even the species that display some homosexual tendencies never continue them, they will mate with the opposite gender when given the chance.

This isn't true for several of the species, see the sources above.

In summation: perhaps attend a 9th grade biology class before asserting claims that contradict professional biologists.

Oh, and consider that your entire objection for homosexuality is "it's different."
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Hey look more than two lines.
Originally Posted by Oracle View Post

Second, time is the framework of a dimension. You exist along the line known as time, frequently addressed as the 4th dimension when it comes to most multi-dimensional theories. Time stretches out into infinity, and it has existed for an eternity.
Fourth, time is a dimension.

Your understanding of physics is also rather bad.

The fancy video you watched about the multiple dimensions is very, very, very controversial and not of scientific value as it is metaphorical.
The superstring theory you seem to advocate is not anywhere close to being proven.
You also need to read up about theory of relativity.
nigerian PM
Originally Posted by Sacrafan View Post
Your understanding of physics is also rather bad.

The fancy video you watched about the multiple dimensions is very, very, very controversial and not of scientific value as it is metaphorical.
The superstring theory you seem to advocate is not anywhere close to being proven.
You also need to read up about theory of relativity.

The theory of relativity states that time can move at slower or faster speeds because of perceptions and gravity, and that space and time are interconnected. It also states that spacetime, the term used to encompass both space and time, is constructed with one plane formed by the third dimension, and another plane formed by time, a fourth dimension. In the theory itself. The theory only states that time is not a constant, it does not rule out that time exists as a separate entity itself.

I'm well aware of the theory of relativity. I'm also aware that we are starting to doubt the validity of the theory of relativity because we've possibly found a particle that can travel faster than the speed of light, something which is impossible under the theory of relativity. Last I checked, it still needs to be confirmed that it wasn't a measurement error, but the issue remains; the theory of relativity itself is not set in stone.

And with something as complicated as the existence of everything, philosophical arguments are almost always the only way to argue them because of lack of evidence. The only support you can give these arguments is logical reasoning. Hence why I use theories where the only basis for them is logical reasoning. I have no proof on the origin of the universe and of time. I can only take what I know, and take what is logical, and try to make the best educated guess that I can.
nyan :3
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