Originally Posted by CMon

Yeah well IMO that's different. If you've ever heard the tale of Beowulf you'd know what I mean, and I see no reason why people that lived earlier shouldn't have had the same faith in the supernatural.

After all, it's technological advances that has made such beliefs go away in time.

Originally Posted by Foxie

Heard of Apollonius of Tayana? It's basically the jesus story, with minor differences.
Oh, noa story? Stolen from ancient religions too. :P

If you research upon christianity, it's a patchwork of other religions, which in my mind, is enough evidence upon itself to fail miserably.

Originally Posted by slipknot

I completely agree with most things there. People should in no way or form have religion forced on them or religious laws forced on them. It should be their desicion entirely. But I dont see how if you dont believe in some sort of religion why should any of mans rules apply to you since murder wouldnt be wrong or stealing or raping because there would be nothing that makes them wrong. And I also dont know why parents who arnt religious think they should have any control over their children.

Originally Posted by CMon

I'm finding it difficult discussing with someone that has blind faith in a book that supposedly knows the exact feelings and reactions of people over 2000 years ago!

I doubt we will get somewhere with this.

Originally Posted by SkazzK

Well, morality isn't just a matter of religion... You get your morality from the way your parents/family raise you... It doesn't matter whether their moral guidelines come from scripture or not. My mother was an agnostic, my father is a vehement atheist. And I do mean vehement, he's suffered some bad experiences with hypocrisy in church when he was young. But I still have more or less the same moral values as you. They're ingrained into human society as a whole.
We obey our parents because we will feel bad if they're disappointed in us. That's because everyone (well, almost) loves their parents, cares for them and wants to make them proud.

I agree with the majority of that

I understand why you wonder about this, but think about what it would be like if your 'fears' were true... Wouldn't there be big hedonistic groups of nonbelievers fighting and fornicating in the streets with no regard for human decency? Last time I checked, there weren't.

Actually, it wouldn't happen since you state below that these feelings of wrongness happens even to atheists which I hold as true as well

We atheists* get the same gut feeling of wrongness when we are about to do something bad. Having a conscience is not dependent on a god being there to rain fire and brimstone down upon you if you sin. I think we all have a conscience because we are human. (And no, not because god gave it to us; if our conscience came from god, neglected and abused children would always develop perfectly fine moral guidelines despite their parent's abuse. Empirical evidence points to the contrary.)

Not true, even if our conscience comes from god doesn't mean it can't be twisted from years and years of abuse. Please tell me how that discredits the existence of god.

Now, I'm not denouncing christianity as a way to achieve good morals. But it's just that, -a- way. By no means does it have a monopoly on morals, and it's not necessary to be a christian to be a good, caring and wholesome individual to your fellow man.

True in my opinion as well.

(*formally, of course, I'm an agnostic, but I consider the proof to be stacked against the existence of god)