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Hey guys, ally from the start-up days back in [ally] etc. Huge congradulations on getting official, I knew you guys would get it. One of the most organized clan I've seen in a long time. Love what you've done with the place.

Kratos, no need to be so hard on these guys. They may not be the most skilled in-game, but their smart, and they certainly know how to run a clan. I'm frankly much more impressed with the guys here in oblivion than most other unofficial clans. I expected these guys to get official. Hehe.

Anywho, hope to see you guys in-game, I like the oblivion server. Love you Zander, Flexy, gun, Kuriso, and everyone else I've had the pleasure of meeting from your clan.
[i]nquisition
nothing much

Thank you sir. It is much appreciated.
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I would like to start a topic on reality. Specifically, is what we perceive as reality, the true reality? I have done some digging and will now produce possible theories for discussion.

1. the only real person is me and the rest of you are extremely advanced computer simulations that are autonomous and capable of acting exactly as humans do.

2. We are the reflections in a mirror or reflective surface and the real people on the opposite side.

3. I am actually insane and you are all figments of my imagination (similar to the simulation theory).

4. This is an alternate universe that was created by a time machine in which someone traveled back in time to when I was born, and some things that we find normal are extremely weird to the original universe.

5. Everything is exactly as we perceive it. You are just as real as I, and this universe is what we get.
Last edited by hawkesnightmare; May 13, 2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’'s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.
I would like to start a topic on reality. Specifically, is what we perceive as reality, the true reality? I have done some digging and will now produce possible theories for discussion.

1. the only real person is me and the rest of you are extremely advanced computer simulations that are autonomous and capable of acting exactly as humans do.

2. We are the reflections in a mirror or reflective surface and the real people on the opposite side.

3. I am actually insane and you are all figments of my imagination (similar to the simulation theory).

4. This is an alternate universe that was created by a time machine in which someone traveled back in time to when I was born, and some things that we find normal are extremely weird to the original universe.

5. Everything is exactly as we perceive it. You are just as real as I, and this universe is what we get.
Last edited by hawkesnightmare; May 13, 2013 at 03:11 PM. Reason: removal of gratitude
All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’'s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.
Thank you hawkes for finally starting the first of hopefully oodles of intelligent discussions here on our shiny new clan forum. I love yew! (© last line of ElectricBlue's signature) :3 Maybe we should make a separate thread for discussions like these? Not now, maybe later. I dunno. Time will tell.

I'd like to add another theory which I feel is also relevant to the concept of reality:

6. Brain-in-a-vat
Everything we see, hear, touch, feel, taste, and experience in general is nothing more than a clever simulation crafted and tailored specifically for every person by an ultracomputer. We are merely brains suspended in vats filled with brain-preserving fluid and connected to the ultracomputer via electrodes. Different realities perceived by different brains mesh together via a clever algorithm that allows all of these individual realities to combine and form into a sort of "meta-reality" (i.e. life as we know it).
Last edited by Trick; May 13, 2013 at 02:58 PM.
fl0w
Thank you hawkes for finally starting the first of hopefully oodles of intelligent discussions here on our shiny new clan forum. I love yew! (© last line of ElectricBlue's signature) :3 Maybe we should make a separate thread for discussions like these? Not now, maybe later. I dunno. Time will tell.

I'd like to add another theory which I feel is also relevant to the concept of reality:

6. Brain-in-a-vat
Everything we see, hear, touch, feel, taste, and experience in general is nothing more than a clever simulation crafted and tailored specifically for every person by an ultracomputer. We are merely brains suspended in vats filled with brain-preserving fluid and connected to the ultracomputer via electrodes. Different realities perceived by different brains mesh together via a clever algorithm that allows all of these individual realities to combine and form into a sort of "meta-reality" (i.e. life as we know it).

-Edit-
We now have a thread devoted to discussions like these! Yay!
Last edited by Trick; May 13, 2013 at 03:39 PM.
fl0w
Originally Posted by Timeenator View Post
Maybe we should make a separate thread for discussions like these?

That would be a good idea. New threads will be created as the need arises, I suppose, in order to reduce clutter.

Action: Created one (1) new thread, "Discussion: Ontology & Metaphysics"
Last edited by Wight; May 13, 2013 at 03:02 PM.
Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare View Post
I would like to start a topic on reality. Specifically, is what we perceive as reality, the true reality? I have done some digging and will now produce possible theories for discussion.

1. the only real person is me and the rest of you are extremely advanced computer simulations that are autonomous and capable of acting exactly as humans do.

2. We are the reflections in a mirror or reflective surface and the real people on the opposite side.

3. I am actually insane and you are all figments of my imagination (similar to the simulation theory).

4. This is an alternate universe that was created by a time machine in which someone traveled back in time to when I was born, and some things that we find normal are extremely weird to the original universe.

5. Everything is exactly as we perceive it. You are just as real as I, and this universe is what we get.

1. If the simulations act exactly as humans do, then what is the real difference between a simulation and a "real" human? Can it not be said that the simulations themselves are then, real?

2. Are there any meaningful consequences to this? If we are the reflections, and our thoughts are also "reflected" in such a way that all of our actions make internal sense to us, yet aren't strictly dictated by "us", what does that change about our understanding of reality?

3. Plausible, and not easily disproven.

4. Again, not easily disproven.

5. Surely, that's too far-fetched to even consider? From our current understanding of the laws of physics, our perceptions aren't to be trusted. Even if we exist in "reality", what does this mean, if we are unable to perceive or know of the whole of reality?

Originally Posted by Timeenator View Post
I'd like to add another theory which I feel is also relevant to the concept of reality:

6. Brain-in-a-vat
Everything we see, hear, touch, feel, taste, and experience in general is nothing more than a clever simulation crafted and tailored specifically for every person by an ultracomputer. We are merely brains suspended in vats filled with brain-preserving fluid and connected to the ultracomputer via electrodes. Different realities perceived by different brains mesh together via a clever algorithm that allows all of these individual realities to combine and form into a sort of "meta-reality" (i.e. life as we know it).

Again I would ask, is there a meaningful difference, between the simulation, and "reality"?
Last edited by Wight; May 13, 2013 at 03:48 PM.
Well, what I meant by #5 was that this is the true reality. No simulations and no figments of the mind, except superstitions and such. All of this is real.
Last edited by hawkesnightmare; May 14, 2013 at 01:24 AM.
All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’'s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.
Originally Posted by de4th
Again I would ask, is there a meaningful difference, between the simulation, and "reality"?

Questions related to probable distinctions between the simulation and "reality" are quite moot in the theory that I presented. Considering that there is no concrete and universal "reality" in the brain-in-a-vat theory (only a conglomeration of different individual realities that overlap here and there), I think it is safe to say that the simulation is, in fact, "reality" in itself.

The interesting subtext in this case would be whether or not the "reality" being fed to you by the ultra computer can be considered as "life" at the end of the day, disregarding any possible occurrences of "ghosts in the machine".
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I think #5 represents a sort of mutually exclusive reality, wherein what you perceive is automatically what is real, irrespective of what others perceive. The problem with this, at least for me, is the immediate need to find a way to reconcile the existence of similarities among the countless mutually exclusive individual realities perceived by different people with the general concept of having a reality that is entirely ONLY your own.
Last edited by Trick; May 14, 2013 at 10:37 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
fl0w
Originally Posted by Pamaaj View Post
I expected these guys to get official. Hehe.

Anywho, hope to see you guys in-game, I like the oblivion server. Love you Zander, Flexy, gun, Kuriso, and everyone else I've had the pleasure of meeting from your clan.

Cheers Pammy <3 good luck with [r]ust's bid for officialdom
You’ve been taught all your life that truth is easy to hide. You'll face your judgment another day and suffer eternally.