I don't have any problems imagining this is true, however, evolutionary biology and natural selection can only explain how we came to be this way, however it cannot explain how life came to be originally. In fact, you have just as much as burden defending your standpoint as I have. You say that I'm a believer, but you have to be just as much a believer when you choose to disregard the existence of a god.
But, yes, let's assume what you say is true. Then what?
But, yes, let's assume what you say is true. Then what?
"I highly doubt one person could fool thousands of people to believe that they will get eternal life and a place in heaven just because they follow him."
Chronos....saddam did a pretty good job of getting people to blow themselves up for him and his heaven.
And isnt Wicca the first religion hence "the old religion"?
Also Christanity was created out of Judeism so how can "God" exist before he was belived in? Last time i checked wiccans dont belive in the "God" everyone else does and wicca was the first religion.
Chronos....saddam did a pretty good job of getting people to blow themselves up for him and his heaven.
And isnt Wicca the first religion hence "the old religion"?
Also Christanity was created out of Judeism so how can "God" exist before he was belived in? Last time i checked wiccans dont belive in the "God" everyone else does and wicca was the first religion.
Last time i checked wiccans dont belive in the "God" everyone else does and wicca was the first religion.
Funny. I don't. And not do many other religions believe in this God. How about Greek, Egyptian and Roman ones for starters? And the Norse one? Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Originally Posted by slipknot
No...please read the parts of the bible about this before stating bullcrap about it. They wanted him dead because they were jealous and he was making them look like idiots. Theres a bunch of reasons but im too tired to go into them all.
And to Foxie: if you have actualy read most of the bible wou would probably realise that its far to wise to be written by men IMO. Theres no other answer than that the holy spirit wrote it for them really. And dont say something like "Oh but it was changed over time by many different guys who perfected it" because somone already said that and I got proof that it wasnt changed.
And i have proof it has been changed. And it isn't in no way wise. It's a mental gridlock, which is easy to produce in a gullible person enough.
Want proof? Let me give it indirectly. Tell me how many versions of holy bible are there?
I don't have any problems imagining this is true, however, evolutionary biology and natural selection can only explain how we came to be this way, however it cannot explain how life came to be originally.
It cannot? Damnit, and i thought it did just that on the first pages of the huge book. Maybe you should read it?
Originally Posted by Chronos
There are so many religions in the world that they are bound to be similar in one way or another, however there is no religion that have more than very little common traits with christianity. Also Christianity is the only religion that combines all these traits and values into one religion. Show me a single religion that christianity has taken more than 5% from. Judaism is not a valid answer since we all know that Christianity has it's foundation in Judaism. I can't see why that would be evidence for christianity "to fail miserably".
No, I haven't heard of Apollonius of Tayana. When exactly is the story written and when do they claim he lived?
Research at your nearest non-google source. Library is a good start. He is but an example. There were dozens if not hundreds of different ''messiahs'' at that time. The claims of what Apollonius of Tayana could do, are just laughably close to those of the nazarethian messiah.
The story was (supposedly) written in the years 0-400
Here's a fun list of what i recall of him.
Apollonius healed the sick and raised the dead.
he could walk through walls.(instead of waterwalking)
he was hated for his Religious beliefs by the local populace. (well no shit)
he was brought to trial, by the local Roman court.
he was crucified. (woot)
he lifted to heaven afterwards, and that was seen by his followers.
And may i remind you, this is not the Jesus story :P
Besides, if your wife/fiancée said that she just suddenly became pregnant and claimed to no end that she did not cheat upon you, would you believe it?
Indeed :P That's the beginning of the bullshit. Now explain why the alleged step-father of jebus didn't suspect his wife of such? The bible tells that no revelations of anything supernatural was shown to Joseph dude.
Oh, and Noah story is more than 5% of bible. :P The great flood and all that shit.
And do you actually believe it's possible to put all of the supposed 50,000,000 species into one ark, as big as possible to bear all that weight on it while still being made of wood? And they wouldn't kill eachother there? And species that live less than 40 days could survive that? (butterflies, for one. Dragonflies for another point) Not to mention, where the fuck did all that water go? It just randomly disappeared? Oh, and if this God ordered 2 of each animals, why did he allow more than 2 humans enter the vessel? And what about fishes, amphibians and crustaceans? They're animals too. I'm not evading the point. The order was absolute: "2 of each animal. Male and female" and what about animals that there are only one gender of? Snails and that exotic lesbian lizard type that clones itself, for one.
Not true, even if our conscience comes from god doesn't mean it can't be twisted from years and years of abuse. Please tell me how that discredits the existence of god.
Since God is a constant force, according to yourself.
Let me remind you. The bible tells you that it is the infalliable word of God. Your God.
If even one fraction of it is incorrect, can the rest be trusted? Your God is perfect, infalliable and omnipotent, afterall.
PS. Every single one of us has broken at the very least one of the 10 commandments. The thou shalt not kill one. Think about it for a while.
Last edited by Foxie; Mar 8, 2008 at 08:59 PM.
What what? In the butt.
First off, don't think of all this in terms of purpose; our ancestors didn't know in which evolutionary direction they were headed.
Let's assume that all animals, including humans, have a form of mind, i.e. a brain that processes the world around them and makes them react to it.
One of our ancestors, let's call him Ug, is having a nice day with the rest of his tribe when suddenly, he sees a lion. He screams in fear, the other apes look up, see him fleeing, and follow him up into the trees. But here's the catch: Ug remembers this. (Behavioristically speaking, he associates his scream with his tribe's decision to flee into the trees.)
The next day, when the women have returned with nice yummy fruits, Ug lets out a scream of fear, and while his fellow apemen are hiding in the trees he steals all the fruit. He has learned to lie. Basically, he has made an If-Then statement in his mind.
The point is, once the ape gets his mind around the fact that when he does something, the other ape reacts, he's found a way to put something he wants into the other's head. And he wouldn't be a proto-human if he didn't try to use it to his advantage.
This provokes the emergence of another kind of behavior in his peers: finding out whether someone is telling the truth or not. You get into a sort of arms race, where one side strengthens the other, making it more complex.
Now, this is just a broad outline, but morality is not irreducibly complex, much like the eye isn't.
Oh, and one thing, the burden of proof does lie with you. You see, I have a huge pile of scientific evidence, and you have scripture and pseudoscience. Intelligent Design is not science. Creationism is not science. Theories about animals clinging to driftwood and ending up in Australia are frankly, laughable. I don't -believe- in evolutionary biology like you do in god and scripture. Your belief in god and scripture is based on a circular argument (Bible says it's word of god, so it must be true because it's in the bible, etc.), whereas the fact that I believe evolution is true is because I've seen a lot of the data, and it makes sense. One word, two meanings. So don't EVER put me on the same level as you. Hasn't it occurred to you that it might be offensive to me to do so?
Let's assume that all animals, including humans, have a form of mind, i.e. a brain that processes the world around them and makes them react to it.
One of our ancestors, let's call him Ug, is having a nice day with the rest of his tribe when suddenly, he sees a lion. He screams in fear, the other apes look up, see him fleeing, and follow him up into the trees. But here's the catch: Ug remembers this. (Behavioristically speaking, he associates his scream with his tribe's decision to flee into the trees.)
The next day, when the women have returned with nice yummy fruits, Ug lets out a scream of fear, and while his fellow apemen are hiding in the trees he steals all the fruit. He has learned to lie. Basically, he has made an If-Then statement in his mind.
The point is, once the ape gets his mind around the fact that when he does something, the other ape reacts, he's found a way to put something he wants into the other's head. And he wouldn't be a proto-human if he didn't try to use it to his advantage.
This provokes the emergence of another kind of behavior in his peers: finding out whether someone is telling the truth or not. You get into a sort of arms race, where one side strengthens the other, making it more complex.
Now, this is just a broad outline, but morality is not irreducibly complex, much like the eye isn't.
Oh, and one thing, the burden of proof does lie with you. You see, I have a huge pile of scientific evidence, and you have scripture and pseudoscience. Intelligent Design is not science. Creationism is not science. Theories about animals clinging to driftwood and ending up in Australia are frankly, laughable. I don't -believe- in evolutionary biology like you do in god and scripture. Your belief in god and scripture is based on a circular argument (Bible says it's word of god, so it must be true because it's in the bible, etc.), whereas the fact that I believe evolution is true is because I've seen a lot of the data, and it makes sense. One word, two meanings. So don't EVER put me on the same level as you. Hasn't it occurred to you that it might be offensive to me to do so?
I'm back, I think... :)
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Originally Posted by SkazzK
Intelligent Design is not science. Creationism is not science. Theories about animals clinging to driftwood and ending up in Australia are frankly, laughable.
Not to mention such miniscule continents as greenland and whole of America. :P
How did the humans and other animals get there, hm? :P And according to bible the world is only around 6,000 years old anyway, oh, and it's also flat. (see ''tree viewable from every corner of the world'' part)
What what? In the butt.
