Originally Posted by kwygon

Obama has not accomplished anything in the Middle East as I have clearly proved to you.
He firstly has not done anything to stop the nuclear research and construction in the Middle East so he has done nothing to do with ridding the world of nuclear weapons.
The tension remains high if not at an all time peak and there is very high risk of war.
He did a fantastic job there didn’t he?
That point is now irrelevant.

"For example, bridging gaps with the Muslim world"
He has achieved nothing in that regard either.
The Muslims and Israelis have come no closet to peace and he has only driven one of America’s closest allies away.
As my earliest example showed you. I am not sure you have read anything in this thread so far.

Once he pulls out of Iraq there will be extreme consequences.
American forces have been keeping the peace there and once they leave all hell will break loose.
There only decent law enforcement is the American troops and therefore it is nothing but a huge mistake to pull out.

I know exactly why he won the award and it is ridiculous.
Nothing that you have mentioned has actually happened.

Now onto your second pillar
"Do you have any evidence all he does is listen to himself speak?"
Yes, all he does is make speeches and useless ones at that.
Watch the news please.
If you compare his gibberish to the speech that Netanyahu made at the UN you can see that most of what he says is irrelevant and has no significance.
What action has he actually taken?
He gave talks on nuclear disarmament but America maintains its nuclear arsenal.
And the Islamic states are continuously developing their own.
Another one of your points falls flat there.

You also mentioned the Healthcare issue that has been denied by a senate that his party control.
These are people sworn to support him and even they can’t stand by him.
No matter how hard he tries to push it through it will not go though because plain and simple it is a bad idea.

Ill reiterate.



So he can push all he wants but there is no point.
It will just be detrimental and in laments terms will not work.

To address your final point about his policies to stop corruption.
It is a mere trivial issue compared to the recession, the war on terror, the tension in the Middle East.
Everything he has done has been trivial and pointless.
And if you would like to open the corruption door, where did the One hundred and twenty million United States Dollars come from that he spent in his campaign,
that he refuses to divulge the source.

Clearly you have not even read my post and are simply talking without any substantiation.

Originally Posted by kwygon

However, a company that pays for your procedures is a privilege and not a right.
They pay their own taxes like everybody else, why raise there’s just so we can make health insurance cheaper.
They are private initiatives and this is damaging to the corporations.
Another thing Obama has no right to do is interfere with perfectly legitimate businesses.
It is not a right to have a private service provided to you.

Originally Posted by kwygon

Obama's presidency is a topic of great controversy.
Many people applaud his efforts in office and while they are very valiant and brave, they are completely ineffective.
I suppose now you think I’m a racist?
Well no, I judge him harshly on his actions and not by his skin color.
I believe that an African American president can unite America in a large way but only if his policies are effective and can represent his people with pride.
So far he has accomplished nothing of any real significance in office but has been awarded with the Nobel peace prize for his efforts in the Middle East.
That is all well and good but what did he achieve. Here we can see one example of Obama alienating Israel.

He demanded an end to construction in east Jerusalem to which the Israeli Prime Minister Mr. Netanyahu was outraged.
He has no right to dictate the development of a city that is in no way the soil of America.
An openly religiously diverse city which was being fairly developed.
To say where the Jews can and can't live in a state that was declared theirs by the UN is despicable.

How did this help the conflict in any way?
The relationships in the Middle East between Israel and the surrounding states have never been more strained.
Israel feels threatened already and now more so as Obama continues to ignore the nuclear development taking place in the Islamic states.

Obama has attempted to pass several bills which have been shot down by a senate that his party controls.
Most famously his health bill was recently set forward.
What it entailed was a government run health care system in which the taxes which were already raised for the rich/middle class are being raised again to provide cheap health care for the poor.
If we look at it most employers already provide health care for their employees, so there are only very very few people without health care.
This bill will also create a one trillion dollar loss over the period of 10 years, which is money that the US government does not have.
After all we are in a recession.

Rather let charities do their job and provide for those people rather than taking the hard earned money of the rich, and we are not talking about the few who inherited it or such, and just hand it over to the poor.
The rich/middle class pay their taxes like anybody else and therefore do not deserve to be burdened with the medical aid bills of those who cannot afford it.
This is also fairly hypocritical as Obama himself was born into a middle class family.

Cnn is known as a large supporter of Obama but even their own reporters are no longer behind the president anymore. They are now publishing articles and statements that reprimand his actions.Here is one example

So we can clearly see that his Peace prize is a joke.
His efforts in the Middle East have been futile and he has done nothing to contribute positively to America.
Maybe if he spent less time listening to himself speak, and started to care about his own people rather that the opinions of the Islamic world he could keep his one million promises that he made in the election. Yes we can?
Of course we can, but we just need to know how. Please stop what you are doing for one second president Obama. Nobody cares about how you bought a little puppy for your kids and nobody cares that you had the support of Germany in your campaigned. What we care about is a leader and we do not see one in him. We all know that we can but so far nothing has happened. And anybody who points it out is a racist. A Blind follower's defense for every one of his actions.
No matter what color he is I only judge his actions. And so far the world is not impressed.
Any thoughts? I will listen to you with an open mind.
I would also appreciate other sources on the subject both agreeing and disagreeing

No, it’s not peoples well being. Public health care is their well being. A public hospital will charge you nothing to treat you. A private hospital can charge whatever they want and if you don’t like it go somewhere else.

It’s the way the world works. What Obama seeks to reform is the Medical Aid system. That is of course when you pay a company and if you need a medical procedure they pay for you to get it. That is a privilege. The poor can get the same public health care as those who don’t have medical aid. What you are talking about is communism. Where everybody is equal and what you do doesn’t count.

The poor are not being victimized.

The businesses are trying to make a profit and are not specifically targeting the poor. If you can’t afford it don’t buy it. If you can’t afford an education get that rather, so that you can get a decent job when you are older. I see you agree with me there. Do we tax people so that poor people can buy cars? It’s exactly the same. It is another private initiative and therefore it is not the responsibility of those who have to provide for those who don’t. Even out the money? That just bullshit. That is just communism.

Originally Posted by Ragdollmaster

Hey guys, since Odlov hasn't shown up yet, I accept the privilege of firing his argument at the Sun.



Protip; taxes, as in the increased governmental taxes being imposed on the rich (OH BOO HOO THEY CAN ONLY AFFORD TO WAX THEIR FERRARIS EVERY OTHER DAY NOW INSTEAD OF DAILY) are what pay for public hospitals, just like they pay for public schools, law enforcement, and the fire department. Nobody expects private hospitals to let in poor people for free, but how can public hospitals treat people if the hospital doesn't have enough money? This is why we've got taxes.



Yes, it is a privilege. It's a privilege that people who can afford to pay for Med-Aid aren't incapable of doing so because they're, say, immigrants from war-torn countries (Former Yugoslavia, anyone?) whose education isn't recognized by the OH SO GREAT COUNTRY OF AMERIKAH, or can't get an education and therefore can't get a high-paying job because they can't afford it. All people, however, have the right to health care, and this is typically provided by taxes because FYI, Bill Gates and Oprah cannot pay for every single poor person's health care. Charities have their place, but taxes take a little bit of money from a whole lot of people and in turn are able to provide needed services.



True, none of the rich are running around stabbing the poor because they know the poor won't be able to limp into an ER, but poor people are more less being thrown out into the cold by rich companies just looking to make a profit. "Oh, your little four year old cancer-induced son needs a kidney transplant? I see, and would you be able to come up with $90,000? No? Sorry, why don't you try the soup kitchen down the street?"



1) People being able to stay alive is a universal right, and while it has its place as a business, if you believe people should die because they can't afford to pay for health care then you, good sir, should go drown in a pile of capitalist shit.
2) People who can't afford an education can't get a good job and therefore can get neither insurance from a good job or can pay for private insurance because they're barely able to make ends meet.
3) I barely repressed the urge to track you down via IP address and smack you in the face with a large hammer for comparing private transportation to the value of a human life. Paying health taxes is not the same as pampering everyone who can't afford to pamper themselves.
4) It isn't the responsibility for the rich to pay for the poor. It is the responsibility for a human to help another human stay alive.
5) This isn't communism or socialism where people are getting everything equally. This is forking over what basically equates to fucking pocket change so that someone less privileged than you can stay alive. Where do you see in America rich people being hauled off to exile and their assets being repossessed so that poor people can split up the money? Because that's what happened in Eastern Europe during WWII. If you made a lot of money and lived near Russia, chances are you would get hauled off to Siberia for being a capitalist- which constitutes you being an enemy of the GREAT NATION.



tl;dr: You're an ignorant moron who needs to suck it up and stop believing everything being spewed out by rich people who are mad they can't afford six Yachts anymore due to taxes and these idiots who don't support Obama because they think the fact that Obama hasn't turned the entire world into a sparkling utopia yet means he's a shitty president and is proof that he's a lying commie trying to take away the HARD EARNED MONEY of the rich.

tl;dr;tl;dr: Learn not to believe propaganda and get over yourself. Kthxbye.

Originally Posted by kwygon

I never said that at all gubbin. It is not the problem of those with some money to solve individual issues for the poor. Also, you misunderstood. Obama's health care bill would only make it more expensive for the rich and cheaper for the poor. It would still be the same system exept totally unfair towards those who have any wealth. It would not cause insurance companies to pay out it would just take the tax payers money to pay for the bill of the less fortunate.

Originally Posted by kwygon

@ Smiley
There is such a thing as public hospitals that provide free health care.
These are government funded.
That is an essential service. However, a company that pays for your procedures is a privilege and not a right.
They pay their own taxes like everybody else, why raise there’s just so we can make health insurance cheaper.
They are private initiatives and this is damaging to the corporations.
Another thing Obama has no right to do is interfere with perfectly legitimate businesses.
It is not a right to have a private service provided to you.
So what Obama is doing is taking people’s companies and using government recourses to damage their business and profits.
If he does so well enough then there will be a hell of a lot more unemployment and then there will be a lot more people who will need to rely on the rich.
I’m not worried about how they will feed and clothe themselves but they work for their money and only owe some of it to the government.
The rest is theirs and we have no right to take it.
And they continue to take more and more.
This is the second time Obama has raised their taxes and all it reminds me of is the unjust taxation while America was under British rule.
Just reversed.
The rich are now being targeted and are being victimized.
They are People like everybody else and if we continue to raise their taxes then they will just evade tax.
Not a very hard thing to do.
So we can clearly see that it is not the responsibility of the rich to provide for the poor.
So why take their hard earned money?
Let the rich be, they aren’t all these monsters bent on destroying the poor by not paying for their health care.
They just work for their money and earn what they deserve.
Well at least the vast majority do.
Let the government pay out of their own pockets if they want to but don’t infringe on the rights of your citizens to do so.

@Slapped
Firstly
In that case what progress has he made? He has spoken on and on about how he wants to disarm but nothing is happening. Where is the evidence of your points? Sources please? Also, it is not Israel who needs to be stopped. They have a fairly small arsenal while it is the nabouring states that are developing new weapons constantly. They are a threat as we have already seen. Israel has no problem with the space they have. The reset of the countries are trying to take it from them and will surely use their new found nuclear ability to achieve this goal. America holds its power by having a powerful military. Why don’t we just disarm it? Without the factor of intimidation Terrorist groups like Hammas and Al-quieda will have the upper hand, be assured they will disarm nothing.

Secondly
Obama has made no progress. As I have said many times before the tension is growing and he is alienating Israel. Therefore he has made no progress. Not even a little but instead he is reversing efforts of great leaders before him. These issues won’t be solved in any time if they continue the way they are going. I don’t expect them to happen any time soon but we need to see some action. He talks and talks and gives more peace talks but while the citizens of all the Middle Eastern countries are afraid to step out of their homes. Believe me I know. I have large contact with Israeli and Lebanese citizens alike. What concrete plans has he set into place?

Thirdly
The Taliban did not form because America invaded. That is just an ignorant guess. America invaded because of the terrorist attack BY the Taliban and other groups. They also invaded to overthrow a regime that was completely barbaric. The Iraqi security forces rely on the training and the supervision of the American forces. While America Did not have a presence in Iraq the security forces there could not tell their ass from their elbows. They lack the experience to be thrown into a lawless state and manage on their own. And despite what you think there are countless terrorist forces out there that have not been wiped out. The vast minority has only been wiped out. The troubles will not only be caused by the Taliban for the record. The citizens will also cause problems without proper guidance of the government. Look at the xenophobic attacks in South Africa. They were dissatisfied with their essential services being provided by the government and blamed it on foreigners.

Fourthly
I am not talking about his inauguration ball. I’m talking about the untraceable 120Mill with unknown origins and providers that he spent DURING his campaign. The rest he happily released where it came from.