HTOTM: FUSION
Originally Posted by Kaszanas View Post
I'd say it's not e-sports worthy, it's pretty random when you dont know what your opponent will do and it's hard to predict...

Cause it's a turn based strategy game,seriously...You can anticipate moves though.

Also,what makes a game Ea-sports worthy?
the game has too many bugs and its random and hard for new players, too hard.

A person to play this game decently needs 1 month

And again, too random even thought you have control since you dont have 100% control.
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You don't have 100% control over ANY game. You need to anticipate and often predict what people are going to do in pretty much every game that is played competitively. The fact that pretty much every match is unique doesn't make it "random", but increases the need to improvise and adapt, showing a far greater need for thought and skill than a lot of games where you can just autopilot.
[02:19] <Dr_Strangelove> nearly 3 hours of nobody saying a word
[02:19] * Tamer0 is now known as TamerAfk
[02:19] <Dr_Strangelove> gg toribash
[02:19] <+hampa> gg
Besides the already mentioned point comes another important thing:
how could you add it to the respected e-sports league? in most of all cases there is something to prevent cheats (not rly neccessary in this case imo) and a big sponsor who tries to update the whole game to make it fit e-sports.
In my opinion those would be some great differents which would probably rob the magic of toribash.
Im not totally against it, it would be awesome if TB would get it to the e-sports league. But there would have to be some updates in order to balance this game more. As a novice you can barely get better unless someone tells you how to. Furthermore the community isnt that big like other games in the league and and there is a lack of new/more interested newcomers. Furthermore you get used to it after a while and it becomes somhow boring.

So all in all, I dont think TB is ready to get into the e-sports-league yet, even if it had some good potential.
the fact that some people play this game in mp so good they are recognized as the best players is enough to throw away the rubbish talk about toribash being not balanced, random and so on.
Yes on a level of one match it can be random, and even some noob brown belt can beat Ticux. But how about best of 10 or 20?
Quake 3 u played till few 10s of frags, even SC which lasts up to 30 mins or 1h they plays best of 3 or so.
Ofc some mods are more random than others, so they obviously can't be used in E-sports.
If u wanted, u could make a mod that would depend a lot more on skill than on luck or some opener fagotry , some already exist: ninjitsu, brushu, lenshu...

I think the main problem of tb is that it is so god damn complicated for most players when they start and without a massive new player input, the game can not become so popular to be chosen for E-sports events.
wishful eyes deceive me
its random when you play tk and suddently a leg breaks for no reason and everyone agrees that it was stupid.

Thats the random i was talking about, when it comes to dms you can never predict because they sometimes appear from the nowhere.

Althought to fix this you just had to create decent mods but with decent mods there should also be better torimodels since the game has bugs.

So IMO fix the game then think abotu Esports
Last edited by AkumaBeast; Nov 27, 2011 at 09:44 PM.
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Eh, Toribash gameplay is complicated? Every game is complicated enough and you need to train way more to be 'a pro' at Dota/CS/whatever-game-used-in-e-sports.
It's just the matter of way of thinking and intelligence different players possess. I mean, you don't need much brain to shoot drawn terrorists, it's just the question of time you spent on the game. So if you do play like 18 hours per day - you are a proffessional.

To be a good Toribash player you don't need to spend all your spare time on it - i.e. Leyz plays just 2 or 3 dozens of matches per month (or even less now) and he's one of the best players I've known. Same story with TIcux who's been completely inactive lately. And that is surely a huge advantage of Toribash over other games.

However, I don't see any possibilities of Toribash being an e-sport game. It doesn't depend on its instability which isn't that appreciable, but it does depend on the development of the game and its promotional prospects. Counter Strike is known all over the world and here we have just one million users (and I bet that at least 30% of them are Russian alts ) and more than half of them have already left the game. Of course, if Toribash got advertised like any of EA games, it could become one of e-sports games.
So, it is worthy to be an e-sport, but it won't become one. At least in the near future.
Well this is funny... When you look at the "big" esport games and look what was the reason why they are going so big... You will see that every game (ok almost every) started with a really small league. It grows up, new players joined and after 1-2 years it got really big...

I think you can put every multiplayer game to a big esport title when u start a league, do advertisment and the game isnt tooo simple.

man i should start a toribash league...
Originally Posted by AkumaBeast View Post
its random when you play tk and suddently a leg breaks for no reason and everyone agrees that it was stupid.

Thats the random i was talking about, when it comes to dms you can never predict because they sometimes appear from the nowhere.

Althought to fix this you just had to create decent mods but with decent mods there should also be better torimodels since the game has bugs.

So IMO fix the game then think abotu Esports

It's not for no reason. After you play the game for an extended period of time, you know which joints can break and when. You won't know exactly, but you can make a very accurate guess.

For example, that aforementioned leg break can happen for many reasons.

One, getting hit previously on that joint causes it to have an reduced threshold to breaking. Like in real life, several small hits can cause the same damage that one large hit causes.

Two, momentum generated during a fight can put the joint in question under a force it's not designed to withstand. For example, a knee can break because of too much momentum from simply extending the knee because the amount of momentum generated causes the knee to extend too far, causing it to generate force on itself resulting in it breaking.

Three, there are established glitches which cause certain joints to phase, or jump, after certain movements. The most well-known one is the glute glitch, where after extending or contracting the glute, holding it cause the joint to suddenly jump in position, often resulting in a break. Even when it's not visible on ghost, it still causes some tension in the joint, which can result in a break.

Four, sometimes you just get grazed and that puts enough force to break the limb. Why? Because of basic physics. Hits hurt more if they are focused to a smaller point. That limb may have swung wildly and grazed you, but that slicing motion had a large amount of force behind it, focusing it on to a small point. Sure, some of the force was deflected away because it grazed, but it still doesn't mean it couldn't have been enough to break the limb. There's a reason why some players actually enjoy having their hands broken off, and that's because the stub that remains is PERFECT for these types of grazing blows. I've had decaps occur easily because I just graze the neck with the stub to result in the break.

Most players don't recognize these subtleties until after years of playing. Likewise, most e-sports have a depth to them most players don't understand until after years of playing. However, Toribash doesn't have the established popularity that most e-sports have to actually succeed as an e-sport. It'd be nice, but it's not likely at this point in time.
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Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
It's not for no reason. After you play the game for an extended period of time, you know which joints can break and when. You won't know exactly, but you can make a very accurate guess.

For example, that aforementioned leg break can happen for many reasons.

One, getting hit previously on that joint causes it to have an reduced threshold to breaking. Like in real life, several small hits can cause the same damage that one large hit causes.

Two, momentum generated during a fight can put the joint in question under a force it's not designed to withstand. For example, a knee can break because of too much momentum from simply extending the knee because the amount of momentum generated causes the knee to extend too far, causing it to generate force on itself resulting in it breaking.

Three, there are established glitches which cause certain joints to phase, or jump, after certain movements. The most well-known one is the glute glitch, where after extending or contracting the glute, holding it cause the joint to suddenly jump in position, often resulting in a break. Even when it's not visible on ghost, it still causes some tension in the joint, which can result in a break.

Four, sometimes you just get grazed and that puts enough force to break the limb. Why? Because of basic physics. Hits hurt more if they are focused to a smaller point. That limb may have swung wildly and grazed you, but that slicing motion had a large amount of force behind it, focusing it on to a small point. Sure, some of the force was deflected away because it grazed, but it still doesn't mean it couldn't have been enough to break the limb. There's a reason why some players actually enjoy having their hands broken off, and that's because the stub that remains is PERFECT for these types of grazing blows. I've had decaps occur easily because I just graze the neck with the stub to result in the break.

Most players don't recognize these subtleties until after years of playing. Likewise, most e-sports have a depth to them most players don't understand until after years of playing. However, Toribash doesn't have the established popularity that most e-sports have to actually succeed as an e-sport. It'd be nice, but it's not likely at this point in time.


Im 10th dan <.< dont wall of text me in how the tori breaks

But again, my position stays the same, saying that you have knowledge of bugs = skill isnt much of a position.

For example today i was playing against ticux and he barely touches my leg in kickbox and breaks it. He said it was Karma <.< and i had to agree because it was so dumb.

There is 2 things that have to be seperated which are the outside view of toribash and the players view of toribash. My brother says its a realistic fighting game but i say that it has lots of bugs because i have the experience of 10000 matchs and he doesnt.

Again, unless new models and bugs are fixed and maybe an overall new image of toribash is created, i dont think you will ever call this an E-sport.

/ps im not saying that you wont win if your a pro cause of bugs, just saying that the game cant be played in a professional level so skill based arguments are invalid IMO.
Last edited by AkumaBeast; Nov 28, 2011 at 10:08 PM.
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