Toribash
Oh yes, stat-based gameplay. A long standing pet peeve of mine that has gotten countless goats from me. It's somewhat forgivable in games where you can't actually aim yourself (see: Fallout 1/2), but it can still be dreadfully annoying when you miss a 95% chance-to-hit shot twice in a row. It's beyond the players control, and that's what really gets me. If the computer decides that you are to fail, then you fail. No amount of skill is going to save you from that, which is why i typically avoid games where player skill falls secondary to arbitrary numbers. The most jarring example i can think of is Morrowind (sorry guys, i'm sure it's a great game but that accuracy thing killed it for me), as has been mentioned. If i swing my sword into someones face, then i damn well expect him to be hit by it!

Also, auto-attacking. I don't like pressing a button and then have my character start swinging ad infinitum, i'd much rather be able to move around dynamically and launch my attack when it's most opportune to do so. I don't mind cooldowns as long as they aren't ridiculous, because i still decide when to launch the attack again.

Basically, most things that take control away from the player, really. Stunlocks very much included. Also, that thing in many FPS's where your crosshair jumps up after getting hit. I know it's realistic to be flinching from the bullets hitting your face, but god DAMN it's annoying as well! Realism should not take precedence over fun. I mean sure, go nuts with the realism if it's fun, but don't skimp on the fun to make it more realistic.
<Blam|Homework> oiubt veubg
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Attacking in The Witcher is particularly bad, and it ruined a decent game for me.

I don't like FPS's where not being scoped in makes your gun randomly shoot at random angles. If I'm pointing my gun at the guy's head it won't hit him in the foot. That's all there is to it.

Stun locks in AoS's piss me off too. It's one thing to be ganked, and it's another thing to be stun locked for 2 minutes by a string of shit. The feel when you can't do anything for all that time as you are very slowly killed...
I'll have to agree with you guys and jump on the "Heavily stats-based game" bandwagon - but only in games wherein it feels out of place.
Like the aforementioned Morrowind. You can even go into 3rd person and see your magnificent two-handed dai-katana slice your enemy clean through the torso and yet... *SWOOSH* *SWOOSH* no hits for you ma' boy.
iirc even arrows act like this, including throwing weapons like shuriken.

Granted Morrowind was entirely a number-crunchy RPG with a FPS/Action RPG façade.
Which was why I fell in love with Oblivion after seeing my sword not go *swoosh* through anything.


I also agree with the above post's mention of non-scoping resulting in all your bullets going off at a tangent. If I have a 1.5m long sniper rifle, 2m of space between me and my target, and the gun pointed towards his chest I'm going to expect that the bullet will make very violent contact with his vital organs. NOT go flying off at 45 degrees and disintegrate an unfortunately placed garden gnome because I didn't stick my eye in its scope.
Originally Posted by 4zb41 View Post
I also agree with the above post's mention of non-scoping resulting in all your bullets going off at a tangent. If I have a 1.5m long sniper rifle, 2m of space between me and my target, and the gun pointed towards his chest I'm going to expect that the bullet will make very violent contact with his vital organs. NOT go flying off at 45 degrees and disintegrate an unfortunately placed garden gnome because I didn't stick my eye in its scope.

CALL OF DUTY. THE MOST REALISTIC SHOOTER TO DATE.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
In Iraq I heard the US troops were trained to sprint around with sniper rifles then quickscope anyone they see.

Gone are the days when snipers would engage at 1200m range, now it's 12m.
Originally Posted by 4zb41 View Post
I'll have to agree with you guys and jump on the "Heavily stats-based game" bandwagon - but only in games wherein it feels out of place.
Like the aforementioned Morrowind. You can even go into 3rd person and see your magnificent two-handed dai-katana slice your enemy clean through the torso and yet... *SWOOSH* *SWOOSH* no hits for you ma' boy.
iirc even arrows act like this, including throwing weapons like shuriken.

you rolled under a 10 or his evasion was too high. Morrowind being an old game can't show you what would happen in D&D. Although if you are undected I think you should be able to hit the enemy without miss with a critical bonus, but whatever.

Granted Morrowind was entirely a number-crunchy RPG with a FPS/Action RPG façade.
Which was why I fell in love with Oblivion after seeing my sword not go *swoosh* through anything.

it's also based off Dungeons and Dragons. It's like rolling a 20 sided die. and you just so happened to roll something under 10 and you miss or the enemy dodges, but looking at morrowind a very, very early game. So, quite obviously it's not gunna show and animation of you missing or the enemy dodging. Not being able to miss is kinda stupid, The enemy not being able to dodge is also kinda stupid. Blocking, meh, it's not like dodging, where you don't get hit at all.

D&D. Play it, you'll understand a lot of these RPG games.

Also I can tell you weren't a mage in Oblivion. I fucking hated the magic in that game. It had some decent magic, but compared to Morrowind? Wow. Oblivion just is a sad game trying to trap in it's weak world. Cyrodiil is a lame province. I don't want to go from killing Guar or Kaguti to killing stupid ass Deer and wolves, so lame. The Isles is the best part of the game too small though.


Not a very rememorable game except the stupid ending.

I also agree with the above post's mention of non-scoping resulting in all your bullets going off at a tangent. If I have a 1.5m long sniper rifle, 2m of space between me and my target, and the gun pointed towards his chest I'm going to expect that the bullet will make very violent contact with his vital organs. NOT go flying off at 45 degrees and disintegrate an unfortunately placed garden gnome because I didn't stick my eye in its scope.

I agree 100% This has happened too many times with so many guns, that I simply got tired of that sight and just stopped playing the game all together.
Problem is that i don't WANT to roll dice to attack in real time. Turn based combat, sure, how else will they simulate accuracy in a fair manner? It's different in real-time games though. I see what you mean about Morrowind being an old game by now, but it would still be incredibly frustrating even if they showed some super neat acrobatic moves (see: Dark Messiah: Might and Magic, where the enemies sometimes dodge out of the way before your sword hits, though it's infrequent enough to not be game-breaking). It's not so much about realism (where evasion is a very, VERY good idea) as it's about the player having fun. If you've ever fought an enemy that constantly dodges your attacks, you know what i mean.

Once again, the thing about it that miffs me is that i have no way to actually affect my chance to hit, other than buffing an arbitrary value and hoping the random number god doesn't hate me. If something beyond the players control causes his/her loss, the player will inevitably be annoyed by it. It's so very different from cocking up and dying because of it, since that'd be the players own fault, which can be rectified. Hell, even extremely difficult games can be fair, as long as the thing that kills can be mastered. My point? Randomly generated numbers CAN'T BE MASTERED.

Also yes, i agree with the inaccurate sniper rifles. Although they would be less accurate from the hip, the boolits should still go in a straight line (or highly elongated ballistic trajectory, but you get the idea) from the barrel. :c
The only immediate issue with that is balance, but it's still quite possible to make a nice compromise between pin-point scoping and field-of-vision-grade spread hip fire. The latter is what we have sawed off shotguns for. Making the no-scoped bullets less powerful is a much less intrusive alternative if balance is that much of an issue.

ramblerambleramble
<Blam|Homework> oiubt veubg
various places to find me lol
@T0ribush: Yeah I know it's all based on D&D and akin to rolling dice. This is what I meant by "number-crunchy RPG". I'm not unfamiliar with the concept, and I'm not adverse to it either. It's just that the presentation of these concepts was all behind the scenes and the game merely looked like it was going to act like an FPS/Action RPG, and then didn't.

As for the magic, yes I agree that it was absolute shit in Oblivion. I have played a mage from beginning to end but he specialised in Unarmed and Restoration which pretty much meant "punch, punch, HEAL SPELL, punch punch punch" :P
Note I disliked Skyrim's default destruction spells too simply because of lack of variety.
And yeah, I'll also agree that Cyrodiil was far more dull than wandering the wastes of Morrowind. Morrowind had so many interesting creatures to fight, and a good variety of dungeon types and biomes etc. as compared to Oblivion's where the dungeons consisted of a few different templates with maybe one or two unique things thrown in.

Originally Posted by shook View Post
If you've ever fought an enemy that constantly dodges your attacks, you know what i mean.

You attack the hammerdwarf but he jumps away!
You attack the hammerdwarf but he jumps away!
You attack the hammerdwarf but he jumps away!
You attack the hammerdwarf but he jumps away!
You miss the hammerdwarf!
The hammerdwarf counterstrikes!
The hammerdwarf strikes you in the head with his copper warhammer, jamming the skull through the brain and tearing the brain!
Dwarf Fortress adventure mode is fun! I've encountered one of these jumpy guys at least once per outlaw-slaying quest, and in many goblin patrols. I don't mind the whole hit/miss mechanics here because you know it's all based around numbers and stats anyway, and is turn-based. The only time I've been frustrated by the contant dodging in DF would be with a low-level adventurer and being attacked by Boogiemen. They'll dodge anything you throw at them, will pursue you to the ends of the earth, and are deadly accurate until you've levelled up your stats a bit and/or have some decent armor. It's a good thing you can keep them away simply by having cannon fodder/companions with you.
I like roguelikes a lot too
Last edited by 4zb41; Sep 7, 2012 at 11:57 PM.
Fun as in !!FUN!!, right? :U
But yeah, Dorf Fortress adventure mode is turn-based, so it's one of the cases where accuracy HAS to be a percentage. I'm probably exaggerating this taker of goats though, there really aren't that many real-time games where human and percentile accuracy coexist.

In other news, i am also immensely bothered by checkpoint starvation. The concept of checkpoints is fine in and of itself, even when replacing quicksaves (though i'd rather prefer having both), but when all you have is very sporadic checkpoints and you die right before the next one, rage ensues. Especially if the last checkpoint was right before a nightmarishly hard segment, forcing you to do it over and over. Hell, just doing the same thing a gagillion times quickly gets annoying. (how hypocritical of me)
<Blam|Homework> oiubt veubg
various places to find me lol