Toribash
Original Post
What's wrong with the game: Suggestions from an old noob.
Hi everyone.

For those who don't know me (that is, everyone), I have been playing Toribash from 2006 to 2008, and came back to play it more seriously only recently, now that internet in Indonesia is actually usable.

I've been playing more than one hours everyday for something like 600 fights, since a couple of month ago.

Several things kind of surprised me when I came back to being really active, and the first one is the very little growth in the community. The server list is not really bigger than 6 years ago as is, seemingly, the amount of simultaneous players.

I really LOVE this game. I really do. But... I think some things could be modified to get some more players to join in. At least, if that's what the community wants.

The main problem, to my mind, is:

The Game Is Not Newbie Friendly

All my friends have given up. I've tried and I keep on trying. But most of the people I know are afraid of the complexity and learning curve.
This is not a problem, Toribash is not really a causal game by design. But there are other deterrents.

- Incentive

When most of the recent online games offer bonuses for even logging-in, and achievements every time you sneeze, Toribash's achievement are pretty hard to get, and the only incentive given is belts requiring an insane amount of playing to level up (I have no problem with that, though) and TC used for customization.

Suggestions
  • Give a prize when belting up
  • Give a prize for continuous login (n days in a row)
  • Give prizes for n amount of victories
  • More achievements (Hours of online play, various dismemberments, booms, win in X frame... many can be thought of)
  • Make more unlockable items based on things other than IQ (can buy a color set only if you've bought another one previously, or got some achievement)


- Prices


Which bring me to my second remark...
Holly hell is this game expensive!
I paid 30$ for 2 licenses, and it's very well spent money. On the other hand, I've been wanting some new colors or maybe some textures...and oh boy don't I have to grind.

Yes there is the market, but it's still pretty expensive when you start.

Not everybody has a betting mind, or the patience to stand tourneys (when you only have one hour a day to play, a full tourney is long).

Worse, some colors have IQ limits, meaning that even if I'm ready to spend real dollars to get something I like, I can't unless I play thousands of rounds.
Also, the void color set, cash only, is worth...74$ total !?
I have never bough a full game for this price, and I don't think I'll ever will.

Suggestions
  • Discount full color sets
  • Discount full texture sets
  • No IQ limits for cash-only texture
  • Cheaper cash-only items
  • Unique cash only/TC only items, but most items payable both ways

- Customization

That's the most important incentive after the fun of the game itself.
And that's where so many things could be done.

Sorry to say, but many of the colors available at the shop are ugly as hell, and the cheapest are the ugliest. Orc? Srsly?
Textures are pretty expensive, and once you have paid for the right to use them, you have to design them yourself. Using your own design should be a perk, not a standard. Some people don't even know what gimp is. Of course if you want, you can pay someone to do it, which is paying someone to get you something you paid to be able to use that's a lot of paying.

The market is terrible, full of sets containing 25 similar items and the search function barely helps.

Suggestions
  • Provide a limited choice of default, official textures directly available in the shop, and give out as rewards. An in-game interface could even be thought of, in the manner of a character builder.
  • Create an in-shop texture market. Where players can upload their creations and sell them for TC or real cash. NOT via the forum. It has to be easy.
  • I understand it has something to do with economics and wachamacallit. As a basic player I don't really care and neither will the newbies: duplicates in sets should be forbidden.

- Interface

Once in-game, barely better than IRC.
Players have to do everything via command line, the lobby is lacking filters, and even the buddy list has to be managed via command line.

Suggestions
  • A server command menu, easily accessible from the HUD
  • A real buddy list, with a window, telling users if their buddies are online and in what room.
  • The possibility to set password, belt range (not by IQ, by belt name), and max players from the 'create new room' dialog box.
  • Not showing rooms you can't join (belt restriction, maybe optional)
  • Filter bets, tourneys, official rooms (credit to dellalanri)

- Rooms, rules and waiting time

When I was still 2nd dan, I had the choice between Tourneys (not an option, too long if I want to get any action), Public rooms (could try my luck) and Quick Aikido. Now I can access Ultimate, but... I always find it empty.

So, I tried joining user created rooms, only to be repeatedly kicked.
When I create a room I have to wait an eternity for someone to join, and get requests for mods I don't want to play.
Then again, no TC in public rooms...

Then there's the problem of waiting time. I play Quick Aikido quite a lot because... well because it's quick. It's not even about the reaction time, or even the match frames, but 4 players max in a public official room is heaven. You actually get to play.

Suggestions
  • Quick Judo, Wushu, Twinswords and other, with max 4 players.
  • New quick rooms auto-spawn when all full
  • Skirmish mode: join a random quick room


That's all I can think of right now... Keep in mind, I don't imply, by any mean, that the game sucks. I just think that some of these improvements could help getting more users and more money to the game and devs, so Toribash never dies.
You my friend, are 100% right. Many many many times i have tried to convince friends to play toribash.

The same answer: "I tried it but it's too complicated!"

Toribash should really consider fixing these simple problems, and maybe even fix intel driver problems ;) (hint hint)
Charbel262: Is it possible to make a flame... around the crotch area?
Qubic: Absolutely
I love everything that was said... sadly if we give into the mass hysteria it won't make toribash toribash... I mean my generation has it way to easy. Where everything is handed to you in a video game. Toribash is the only game that's ever posed a challenge for me. I think I get what your saying but I don't want this game to become a MW3 or some other over hyped incrediably easy game.
But in all reality... I think I might be insane...
Originally Posted by Agentmax View Post
sadly if we give into the mass hysteria it won't make toribash toribash...

These suggestions don't change the gameplay in any way (even though I'm pretty sure the main reason people leave Toribash is due to the ridiculous learning curve). All these suggestions do is make the game easier to approach and give incentives for players to actually stay while they endure the torture that is the learning curve.
"Fear not the Tori who has practiced 10,000 openers once, but fear the Tori who has practiced one opener 10,000 times."
I can totally back up all his points here! Not enough frequent updates in my view? times change and the game needs to evolve for the fit if the game.. I love the idea on The adding more rewards and To be fair I thumbs up the whole post! I actually haven't seen such a usefull suggestion on toribash community ever !
This will change Toribash forever, this is a great idea. I for one agree and love the idea if you level up you get a prise this will help a lot of people.
eat my ass
I think for the eco would it be a good idea to be able to sell items back to the store for a mid fixed price, and the eco could balance out then so people can't higher the prices to much to ridiculous prices!
Originally Posted by hampa View Post
Great suggestions. I'll try to incorporate some of them in upcoming releases.



I feel like I have touched the sky.

More seriously, thanks for reading and giving this post some of your time, it's very awesomated!
I wish Toribash had not just more players, but more rooms for public use. The beginner room is often crowded, and tourneys take a long time or are too hard. If there was a simple interface to connect between different rooms with fun mods, then more people would play. This game is full of learning curves. The text commands/lack of graphical in-game interface, and the customization should both be much easier. Take this quote from an editor of Mmohut for example:

This one shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. If you look at the most successful video games the thing that they all share in common is simplicity. MMORPGs like Maplestory and World of Warcraft are largely straight forward and easy to understand. Games like Tetris and Super Mario became enormously popular because they were extremely easy to play and understand. Simplicity allows a game to target the widest possible audience, which results in a healthier and more vibrant community. I’d also like to point out that ‘simplicity’ doesn’t have to mean ‘dumbed down’ or ‘stupid’, but rather easy to learn. Games that have steep learning curves like Eve Online and Ultima Online can never be as successful as World of Warcraft, simply because people generally don’t enjoy spending hours simply learning how to play a game. I personally find ‘simple’ games to be more enjoyable than those that are enormously complicated. The Best free MMORPG has to be simple.

The article states the three basic elements of successful multiplayer games: simplicity, moderate PvP, and community. Here's the source:
http://mmohuts.com/editorials/the-best-free-mmorpg
Last edited by Richgar319; Nov 8, 2012 at 01:17 AM.
Originally Posted by Richgar319 View Post
I wish Toribash had not just more players, but more rooms for public use. The beginner room is often crowded, and tourneys take a long time or are too hard. If there was a simple interface to connect between different rooms with fun mods, then more people would play. This game is full of learning curves. The text commands/lack of graphical in-game interface, and the customization should both be much easier. Take this quote from an editor of Mmohut for example:



The article states the three basic elements of successful multiplayer games: simplicity, moderate PvP, and community. Here's the source:
http://mmohuts.com/editorials/the-best-free-mmorpg

There are some valid points in the article, although the 'moderate pvp' aspect needs some serious adaptation when it comes to Toribash.

CSB time: When I was a kid, around 10 or 12 years old, I dreamed of creating a fighting game where you could really control all the moves of your character. Then, years later, Toribash came along and my life was complete (well it did contribute).
But I was a total video game nerd, and learning curves never scared me.

This is to say that TB is not a casual game. It's a near simulation and it will always require players to invest some time before getting good at it.
Only, the reward for mastering the physics is awesome. There is a feeling of true control and true acquired skills, just like in real life. That's what makes me stick to the game.

Does TB have the potential to be as popular as Tetris? I don't think so, it's a niche game for demanding gamers.

Does TB have the potential to get a hundred times more users? Completely, and it's just a matter of being more welcoming to the young blood.

Also, talking about the community, Toribash players are in general very friendly. There is a solid 10% of pure trolls, but as soon as we can ignore players, they should go away nicely.