Toribash
Original Post
Toribash as eSport (e-Sport edition)
what you are about to read here is a concept of making toribash e-sport-ish

these are things that need to be made in order to make toribash a real e-sport discipline.

OVERALL GAMEPLAY

NO DISMEMBERMENT, NO FRACTURES.
replace both by minimal breakpoint and maximum breakpoint. (will be explained later in text)

BALL AXIS GRAB, GRAB THRESHOLD TO BE ABLE TO BREAK IT.

ESTABLISHING CONTROL OVER MODS

mods need to be controlled.
more=/=better. currently we have a shit ton off mods most of them are useless.

step 1. creating white list of mods

only approved mods should be on the white list. if you want to play other mods that have been submited, you need to download it from site. only mods from white list will be avaible after instalation. only mods from white list are allowed for competitions.

these mods must be cathegorised by 2 parameters: class (striking or ippon) and mod group (wushu, aikido irl judo, tk, boxing etc)

1-5 mods per cathegory max.
these are going to be main competative mods which will be utilised mostly.

MODS COMPLEXITY AND METAGAME

now about complexity of these mods.

regular mods with extremely low skill cap should not be utilised. at all.
i'm talking about scrub mods like abd, instagib mods and judo mods, no matter regular or frac.

this is e-sport edition, so fuck you everybody who think it should be gradual or noob friendly.

each mod must have forethought metagame and require alot of skill to meet win conditions.

additional modding abilities are required in order to make these mods to be such. (dq condition, points system, rounds, grab mechanics)

let's start with everybody's favourite - aikido. even tho we should call it judo (hopefully for e-sport edition)

main flaws of thee mod:
1) damage
2) doublegrab

in order to make aikido more competative damage should be disabled. if hamp was any serious about making tb e-sport, he should put some effort.

GRABS RE-DESIGNED

next, double grab. this is the bane of aikido for one single reason. grab mechanics is terrrible and need to be fixed. right now we have solidd line connection grab which is unbreakable and fuck up tori body. ways to deal with it: make grabs to work like ball axis connection, so it would not cause so much force and it will work around natural, so tori bodies would not get fucked up during double grab. and of course we need grab threshold, so grabs may be broken.

additional artificial restrictions may be added after testing.

now, since we don't have damage, we shifted metagame to focus on dq. but to make the game actually more competative we need to give more clear objective and proper scoring, so now we will talk about dq conditions.

SCORING

DQ CONDITIONS

1 point
dq occurs out of dojo # any bodypart
dq occurs inside the dojo # legs or glutes dq

2 points
dq occurs inside the dogo # shoulders, pecs or torso bodyparts dq

4 points
dq occurs inside dojo # head dq

head dq inside dojo will be considered as ippon and score victory. victory achieved by scoring 4 points.

ROUNDS AND WIN CONDITIONS

so basic game will consist of 1-4 rounds maximum. draw = both score 1 point.
no matter what the mod.

no frac or dm.

now what we just described is a gamemod with metagamee shifted towards getting opponent dq by head inside the dojo (pindown/throws) what require way more skill then shit brawling you can see in regular game.

POINTS AND DAMAGE CONDITIONS

now let's talk about points and damage.

for example let's take striking mods like.. boxing or wushu, since damage and points will be pretty much the same.

since these mods are long enough to have atleast several encounters, there is no need in rounds and win conditions by points, so points by damage take place.

each bodypart that can be damaged will have 2 breakpoints

minimal and maximum

let's say you hit any torso part with 5 000 damage of our current score system. in this case you score 1 point.
if you hit torso with less damage like 4 500, you would not score anything.
this is minimal breakpoint.

if you hit torso with more damage than 5 000, for example 5 020, you will still score 1 point.
if you hit torso with damage 15 000, you score 3 points.
this is maximum breakpoint.

fracture and dismemberment should be replaced by minimal breakpoint and maximum breakpoint.

points and damage for head will be different. you can't score by hitting arms or legs.
in this case hitting precise and hitting hard will be rewarded and metagamee will be shifted towards it.

SPECTATOR ABILITY

now, making broadcasting toribash more interesting, since broadcastting is what makee e-sport an e-sport.
yoyo made a tool to draw lines on screen to show whats going on.

additionally there should be an option to high light a joint by click in spectator mode, so it will be a good visual tool for commentators.

ECONOMY

since it's e-sport relise, economy can have a fresh start. fuck free market. the only agent you can trade with = nabi.
want to get some customisation - win tournaments hosted by nabi or donate. or just play and win. no way to transfer tc from one account to another. only staff can do that.

CLANS
clan competions are played as it will be designed, but to make clans leaderboards point system will be utilised.

CLANS RANKING SYSTEM



USER INTERFACE RE-DESIGN

let's face it, toribash look like shit. i mean the game looks like some alpha/beta/proof of concept instead of looking like an actual game.
if nothing can be done about the way it looks, alteast UI re-desing is required.

fuck command lines. it's not intuitive. if you add friends list - add dam button to show it.

description for each setting on mouse hover is required.
Last edited by snake; Aug 26, 2013 at 01:23 PM.
All you did was make Tbash more competitive. At the end of the day though its not an esport. Non of that will grow the community or jump start it to being a esport. It will always be a small game that is community driven. For me this game was always 50% game I can play and relax. 50% community, friendly players and the forums. It's far from an esport and it just won't ever make it there.
Originally Posted by Jakeway View Post
All you did was make Tbash more competitive. At the end of the day though its not an esport. Non of that will grow the community or jump start it to being a esport. It will always be a small game that is community driven. For me this game was always 50% game I can play and relax. 50% community, friendly players and the forums. It's far from an esport and it just won't ever make it there.

Ok take it this way. Toribash is about to get on steam. Once it does, It will have a very big audience. There will be people who weant to play for fun, and there will be people who are very competitive (like me). This is an idea for a different version of the game. Like a different app. You will still have your "normal" Toribash while we have fun being the competitors we are. It is a win win.
The grab ideas are great though. And other ideas would be good for a league or something.
-----
The audience isn't getting big enough to g esport big sorry to crush dreams but its not something that will happen. You and a small group of players may be very competitive. But there is no market for this game as an esport. I was in esports for years and this game just won't be a spectator sport.
Last edited by Jakeway; Aug 28, 2013 at 03:00 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
I made ball socket grabs in the Nintendo version, I'll try and move that over to the PC version too.

You can see it rotating here:
http://youtu.be/OzqdNpr08Xo?t=1m10s
ah, and almost forgot, make sure grabs don't cause alot of force if any, in other words i recommend to let it "float" a bit more, not a fixed connection

and where we can download dev build to test out, and give feedback?
Originally Posted by snake View Post
ESTABLISHING CONTROL OVER MODS

mods need to be controlled.
more=/=better. currently we have a shit ton off mods most of them are useless.

step 1. creating white list of mods

only approved mods should be on the white list. if you want to play other mods that have been submited, you need to download it from site. only mods from white list will be avaible after instalation. only mods from white list are allowed for competitions.

these mods must be cathegorised by 2 parameters: class (striking or ippon) and mod group (wushu, aikido irl judo, tk, boxing etc)

1-5 mods per cathegory max.
these are going to be main competative mods which will be utilised mostly.

snake, this idea goofy as hell. Mods are a large part of the game because they are community made. One of the selling points of Toribash is it's user-generated content.

Originally Posted by snake View Post
MODS COMPLEXITY AND METAGAME

now about complexity of these mods.

regular mods with extremely low skill cap should not be utilised. at all.
i'm talking about scrub mods like abd, instagib mods and judo mods, no matter regular or frac.

this is e-sport edition, so fuck you everybody who think it should be gradual or noob friendly.

each mod must have forethought metagame and require alot of skill to meet win conditions.

additional modding abilities are required in order to make these mods to be such. (dq condition, points system, rounds, grab mechanics)

let's start with everybody's favourite - aikido. even tho we should call it judo (hopefully for e-sport edition)

main flaws of thee mod:
1) damage
2) doublegrab

in order to make aikido more competative damage should be disabled. if hamp was any serious about making tb e-sport, he should put some effort.

snake, this idea is goofy as hell. Ignoring new players is an outright bad idea. Toribash's learning curve is steep enough, forcing them to play the most skill-inducing mods is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by snake View Post
ECONOMY

since it's e-sport relise, economy can have a fresh start. fuck free market. the only agent you can trade with = nabi.
want to get some customisation - win tournaments hosted by nabi or donate. or just play and win. no way to transfer tc from one account to another. only staff can do that.

snake, this idea is goofy as hell. Again, another selling point (and probably a majority of the community) is the open and free market. Restricting trade to between Nabi and the consumer is simply a ludicrous step backwards.

On a related note, you've suggested half of these before.
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[11:35:40] <box> Hampa suck
[11:36:21] <hampa> not the first to tell me that today