Secret Santa 2024
Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
So which way would you prefer I use to poke holes in the "second amendment is to protect us from big brother" belief?

Large numbers of rifle armed militia are still quite effective. Not as much so as when the second amendment was written (at which point an armed population could easily fight the government) but it's still quite a threat.


It is interesting to see the US Gov't doing things that will surely label them as tyrannical. Restricting freedoms, removing guns, arming police, etc.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Do you get off on acting like this? It's not cool and witty, just childish.

On the question, no, I don't think so. Ferguson recieved a paramilitary response from the police, sure, but I don't think you can extract an isolated event and construct a trend from it.

I act like it because it's a pain in the ass having to argue with gun rights activists, and the Second Amendment argument has occurred in discussion more than a couple times now, and every time it's ended with me getting more and more frustrated with them. Most of the pro-gun posters are uninformed, abound with big brother conspiracy, claim liberal bias on anything that stands in opposition to their views, and frequently struggle to make a cohesive argument for their case. I have no patience with discussing the topic any more because of this.


And it's not just Ferguson. The U.S. military has sold a lot of it's hardware to law enforcement groups in an attempt to salvage some of the costs from the Iraq War. Ferguson put the usage of military hardware in the spotlight, but the proliferation of it in law enforcement groups has been going on for a few years now.
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woah man im not a gun activist or whatever i'm just saying i dont think the way protests and simple questioning of whats going on should be taken as a threat, resulting in less privacy and the fear of being arrested for nothing.
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Originally Posted by king4life View Post
woah man im not a gun activist or whatever i'm just saying i dont think the way protests and simple questioning of whats going on should be taken as a threat, resulting in less privacy and the fear of being arrested for nothing.

Originally Posted by king4life View Post
Well its constitutional to bear arms in case the government becomes out of control and don't fear the people anymore. Hm. Gonna be hard to defend ourselves. Seems like they're preparing for a civil war, not trying to sound like a conspiracy theorist or anything.

it certainly didn't come out that way.
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Originally Posted by king4life View Post
woah man im not a gun activist or whatever i'm just saying i dont think the way protests and simple questioning of whats going on should be taken as a threat, resulting in less privacy and the fear of being arrested for nothing.

Maybe they shouldn't riot and loot if they don't want to be treated like criminals.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
And it's not just Ferguson. The U.S. military has sold a lot of it's hardware to law enforcement groups in an attempt to salvage some of the costs from the Iraq War. Ferguson put the usage of military hardware in the spotlight, but the proliferation of it in law enforcement groups has been going on for a few years now.

The militarisation of police is occuring, yes, but that doesn't necessarily point to the U.S. becoming a police state. It's just means their ability to respond to crises is enhanced. The term 'police state' has totalitarian connotations - controls on freedoms, those kinds of things. I don't think that anyone (over 12) can legitimately argue the U.S. is/is becoming a totalitarian state.

inb4 twelvies that will argue that;
Take a look at any recognized totalitarian state. Now take a look at the U.S... see the difference?
Democracy is a fallacy in practice, under most systems in effect today.
It's just there so the peons can feel like they have a real choice. You vote for asshole A or asshole B and expect things to change. When was the last time you got asked about major questions regarding domestic and foreign policy?
"Hey, dipshits, is it okay if we bomb these innocent civilians in these resource-rich countries?"
I'm sure noone with a hint of humanity would vote yes.

But then of course, the everyman in the US is raised like cattle. You don't need a proper education, all you have to do is grab a rifle and head out on deployment. You are "protecting" your country afterall, noone cares about books and all that crap, amirite?
Last edited by ynvaser; Sep 18, 2014 at 06:08 PM.
Originally Posted by ynvaser View Post
Democracy is a fallacy in practice, under most systems in effect today.
It's just there so the peons can feel like they have a real choice. You vote for asshole A or asshole B and expect things to change. When was the last time you got asked about major question. I'm sure noone with a hint of humanity would vote yes.

But then of course, the everyman in the US is raised like cattle. You don't need a proper education, all you have to do is grab a rifle and head out on deployment. You are "protecting" your country afterall, noone cares about books and all that crap, amirite?

yep, what he said. I expected some different opinions and all, but it points back to 1984 everyone just had a "well thats the way the world is." mind set.
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Originally Posted by king4life View Post
woah man im not a gun activist or whatever i'm just saying i dont think the way protests and simple questioning of whats going on should be taken as a threat, resulting in less privacy and the fear of being arrested for nothing.

Simple protests are no longer simple when rioting, looting, and assault of citizens and law enforcement begin to happen. At that point it is a criminal action and can be responded to as it was.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
Maybe they shouldn't riot and loot if they don't want to be treated like criminals.

Exactly. I agree with this statement completely.

Originally Posted by ynvaser View Post
But then of course, the everyman in the US is raised like cattle. You don't need a proper education, all you have to do is grab a rifle and head out on deployment. You are "protecting" your country afterall, noone cares about books and all that crap, amirite?


First question: Do you live in the United States currently?
Second question: Have you ever lived in the United States?

If the answer to both of those is "No" then you really have no worthwhile opinion on how things work over here.

To expand, the government is actually making it easier for "the everyman" to get into a university and get a degree. If said "everyman" decides to join one of the branches of the military instead, the government will pay for the schooling, and will also pay them just for going to school after they are discharged. Seems to poke just a small hole in your argument. Also, at least we aren't as bad as countries that require a mandatory military service from every citizen. Our military is all voluntary.


Also, for any concerns about privacy and wiretapping please direct yourself to the USA PATRIOT Act of 2001. Specifically title 2 if you are interested in the parts concerning surveillance.


As a fun aside to the above mentioned act, only a few senators actually read the bill before passing it through congress and into law. To be fair to them though, this was enacted extremely soon after the single worst terrorist attack against the United States, so no one was really thinking straight.
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Originally Posted by Gum View Post
First question: Do you live in the United States currently?
Second question: Have you ever lived in the United States?

If the answer to both of those is "No" then you really have no worthwhile opinion on how things work over here.

I don't really need to do any of that to form an opinion based on second-hand information. I'm actually quite interested in the topic, since the way your country works affects the whole world if you haven't noticed yet.

Originally Posted by Gum View Post
To expand, the government is actually making it easier for "the everyman" to get into a university and get a degree. If said "everyman" decides to join one of the branches of the military instead, the government will pay for the schooling, and will also pay them just for going to school after they are discharged. Seems to poke just a small hole in your argument. Also, at least we aren't as bad as countries that require a mandatory military service from every citizen. Our military is all voluntary.

I have actually heard of that system before, and said what I said based on that information.
Let me recap: if anyone wants a brighter future for themselves, they have to grab a rifle and go shoot people? Seems like jolly good fun, and something a peace-loving liberal state would do.

Ofc it's not mandatory military service. You'll just have to do it if you don't want to make minimum wage for the rest of your life.
Last edited by ynvaser; Sep 18, 2014 at 11:29 PM.