Originally Posted by MintCat
Well, one would think so, Zelda.
The quote goes on about how "We reject any attempts to create division and marginalisation", and one could only think that they're referring to the Muslim comment, which got way out of hand and taken out of context.
Nevertheless, despite the hundreds of thousands of people who are so "oh! i disagree with you, so i don't think you should be allowed an opinion! yadda yadda yadda", the government really has no valid reason for banning him.
You'd think our main focus would be to actually control immigration, rather than put all our focus into one guy who's ironically trying to do just that, but that's just my opinion.
I'm pretty sure if you real the full quote it will give a very different impression, I imagine it will real more like "Yeah we know Trump is a knob-head racist, but we can't just ban political candidates because we dislike them".
Good morning sweet princess
Honestly, I dislike Donald Trump. But should he be banned? No, of course not. That's pretty stupid. It isn't like he will be in power over in the United Kingdom. But could he be banned? According to this, and to what their government is saying, he just may be.
How exactly does this remind you of 1984? Yeah, the country of Oceania was in control of "Big Brother" and all, but there was absolutely no freedom there. You couldn't even have sex. Which is why Winston and Julia were taken into custody and what not. Was literally warBut I don't think it would get like that here.
Are you comparing it to how they hate Goldstein and had the 2 Minutes Hate? If so, I can see how the two can be similar. I was just confused on what was similar between the two.
Originally Posted by MintCat
This whole thing reminds me of George Orwell's 1984. If Trump is denied access into Britain, then what is free speech? Surely if this decision is made, it will only provide America with the greater desire to actually vote for Trump (which I personally wouldn't mind).
How exactly does this remind you of 1984? Yeah, the country of Oceania was in control of "Big Brother" and all, but there was absolutely no freedom there. You couldn't even have sex. Which is why Winston and Julia were taken into custody and what not. Was literally warBut I don't think it would get like that here.
Are you comparing it to how they hate Goldstein and had the 2 Minutes Hate? If so, I can see how the two can be similar. I was just confused on what was similar between the two.
"Dear reader, I hope this email finds you before I do."
I feel like it is worth making the distinction between freedom of speech, and what Trump is doing. Freedom of speech is saying "In my opinion we should bar Mexicans and Muslims from entering the USA." whereas I'm pretty sure Trump is straight up claiming that he will bar Mexicans and Muslims from entering the USA. You are free to say that you think someone should be shot. If you go around telling people you are going to shoot someone then that is less acceptable and hopefully law enforcement would step in to try to stop that from happening. If Trump just had opinions then that would be fine, but he also has intentions to go through with them to a certain extent, and that is something we can try to stop without taking away free speech.
Good morning sweet princess
Originally Posted by Zelda
I feel like it is worth making the distinction between freedom of speech, and what Trump is doing. Freedom of speech is saying "In my opinion we should bar Mexicans and Muslims from entering the USA." whereas I'm pretty sure Trump is straight up claiming that he will bar Mexicans and Muslims from entering the USA. You are free to say that you think someone should be shot. If you go around telling people you are going to shoot someone then that is less acceptable and hopefully law enforcement would step in to try to stop that from happening. If Trump just had opinions then that would be fine, but he also has intentions to go through with them to a certain extent, and that is something we can try to stop without taking away free speech.
Saying is definitely different than doing, but yes, he acts as if he is actually going to completely kick Muslims out of the United States, which I think is ridiculous.
Freedom of Speech: The right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.
Muslim people who were born here or are citizens of the US shouldn't have to submit to that kind of fate, but he doesn't care. Any Muslim shouldn't. There just needs to be better background checks for when anyone comes to the US.
I was recently reading about Trump being able to take away citizenship from national born citizens, and that it does say under the 14th amendment that you are granted citizenship if born in the US, but also says "subject to jurisdiction [of the U.S.]". Which is more complicated than it could be. Regardless, Trump has to deal with this, and acts of congress if he even wants to do this.
In conclusion, I don't think he will be elected, and if he is, I don't think he will be allowed to just throw US citizens who are Muslim (don't know if he feels the same about Mexicans when it comes to this) out of the country.
"Dear reader, I hope this email finds you before I do."
Originally Posted by WeooWeoo
Are you comparing it to how they hate Goldstein and had the 2 Minutes Hate? If so, I can see how the two can be similar. I was just confused on what was similar between the two.
Bingo.
Obviously, the likenesses aren't completely identical, but the progression of politics seems to be going in the direction of what Orwell originally predicted, which I find to be worrying.
Originally Posted by Zelda
I'm pretty sure Trump is straight up claiming that he will bar Mexicans and Muslims from entering the USA.
Originally Posted by WeooWeoo
he acts as if he is actually going to completely kick Muslims out of the United States, which I think is ridiculous.
2:24
Also, I'd rather not debate the definition of free speech. Yes, it's important to understand it, but I remember a similar thread to this one literally turned to shit because people couldn't make their minds up about terminology, etc.
Last edited by MintCat; Jan 2, 2016 at 04:57 PM.
