Originally Posted by Enigma
You'll never have a balanced and fair discussion about feminism on a game forum. Too many people with bad information and combative mindsets.
Feminism is a movement dedicated toward the equality of genders. That's just a fact. Some people may claim to be feminists, but fail to support the core values. That exists in every movement.
Where would you have a fair discussion about feminism? Wherever there is interest in discussing a topic people will have opinions on it. By nature people are going to be biased to one side or the other of the discussion, as long as there are 2 sides to the discussion, it is fair.
Feminism's initial intention was to give women more rights so that they had the same rights as men, in the case of the suffragettes it was to give women the same right to vote as men. It's exceedingly rare to see a feminist arguing for mens rights in cases such as domestic abuse and rape laws and despite it being very debatable who gets generally "treated better" overall in modern society, feminists still only seem to be arguing along lines whereby they want women to be given more rights / help / protection when compared with men.
In fact the definition of feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." i.e. The feminist movement wants to equalize rights where men are perceived to be advantaged, but they are not interested in giving men equal rights and opportunities to women in scenarios where they dont already. With this in mind, does feminism as a movement truly advocate for equal rights?
Some of those that decry feminism are also terrible people that actually hate and are violent toward women. But not everyone that disagrees with feminism is that way, and not every feminist is your "feminazi" strawman. Far from it actually.
I'd wager that most of you haven't interacted with feminists, and if you did, you were probably antagonistic toward them. There's so much discussion about how terrible and oppressive feminists are, and that makes people immediately act hostile toward feminists before having ever interacted with one themselves.
Most feminists are also very concerned for the well-being of men within our culture. Feminism is always striving to encourage respect for femininity, in men and in women. It's actually a very fair movement. There's just a certain degree of.. exhaustion within the community because every person that talks about it with you is hostile and defensive.
Noone thinks that most feminists fall into that category.
Just... think for a moment about how much feminism actually oppresses you in your day-to-day life. Try to be a little bit less angry about a movement that's dedicated toward people feeling better about themselves. Try to look past whatever horrible thing feminism did to you in your past, and just try to understand why it's a positive movement that's meant to encourage confidence and self-love in men and women.
A lot of the concepts and ideas shared in feminism are actually really agreeable if you drop your assumptions about feminism being shitty.
Idk why I'm posting here, it's just kinda sad seeing this sort of misinformed discussion on the forums of a game I love. I'm not trying to shame any of you, I just genuinely wish that people would drop the hate and give feminism a shot? Just read a bit about what it wants to accomplish, and don't assume that it's intended to take away your rights, or belittle men.
With the application of the Duluth model men are oppressed in the court of law and by police as a result of feminism, I by no means think feminism is a toxic concept but I do think it needs to be very rebalanced to focus as much, or almost as much on mens rights as womens rights - which is something which I dont think will ever happen.
If you think I am misinformed have a discussion with me and show me where,
it does strike me as odd though that you are arguing from a feminist standpoint that feminism isnt belittling, while having your whole closing paragraph dedicated to being belittling.
Last edited by SmallBowl; Oct 17, 2016 at 06:02 PM.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Feminist is just a title some women give themselves because they have no identity otherwise. When have you ever met a feminist whose identity wasn't constructed around the entire idea of social justice, "quirky", and "brutally honest" attitudes?
Purely anecdotal but I'm sure others have noticed this as well.
If you care about the rights of all people, you're an egalitarian. If you have a false sense of superiority, you're a feminist. (Feminism is just a glorified subsection of egalitarianism, worse, considering you care about less people.)
while my opinion may be a bit different I still agree with you smallbowl
Purely anecdotal but I'm sure others have noticed this as well.
If you care about the rights of all people, you're an egalitarian. If you have a false sense of superiority, you're a feminist. (Feminism is just a glorified subsection of egalitarianism, worse, considering you care about less people.)
while my opinion may be a bit different I still agree with you smallbowl
Last edited by Surfings; Oct 17, 2016 at 01:16 PM.
Originally Posted by Surfings
Feminist is just a title some women give themselves because they have no identity otherwise. When have you ever met a feminist whose identity wasn't constructed around the entire idea of social justice, "quirky", and "brutally honest" attitudes?
Nope, not at all.
Almost everyone I know defines themselves as feminist. Sure, some take it to the level where the ideology is part of their personality, but most people don't, and are completely normal people with a wide span of interests and personalities.
It might be true in your environment but it isn't in general.
If you care about the rights of all people, you're an egalitarian. If you have a false sense of superiority, you're a feminist. (Feminism is just a glorified subsection of egalitarianism, worse, considering you care about less people.)
I'm sort of tired getting juggled between "you're supposed to call yourself this or that". Please realise that whether you call yourself a feminist or egalitarianist you'll mean the same thing a lot of the time. Some people choose to call themselves feminist because they think that most discrimination is aimed at females. Some people choose to call themselves feminist because the "egalitarians" are a bunch of opinions that might be on the other side of the spectrum. (Don't try to suggest that egalitarians are more for equality for calling themselves egalitarian).
It's the same thing as black lives matters vs all lives matters. Of course, the subtext is all lives matters, but that's not what you want to convey.
(not bringing up the organisation or anything, although the strong identification with political opinions depending on which phrase you use further shows that words carry more weight than their meaning).
Brendan (he who passeth judgement on the frequent changing of signatures): I don't do hentai anymore
Well, you might say that everyone you know identifies as a feminist Lazors, but that doesn't accurately portray what's actually happenening.
30 years ago, Gallup and Newsweek started running polls to find out how many Americans identify as feminists. 30 years ago, the answer was about 50%. Earlier this year, the poll (run this time by Huffington Post) found that while over 80 percent of Americans believed in equality for men and women, only 20% self-identified as feminists. This isn't just happening in America, in Britain that second figure is as low as 8%.
People stop calling themselves feminist because they don't want to be lumped in with the man-hating crazies.
As I sort of alluded to in my first post, feminism is no longer feminism. It's been co-opted by the cunts. Naturally, people don't want to be lumped in with a bunch of cunts and so the number of people that identify as feminists is small and trending downwards.
30 years ago, Gallup and Newsweek started running polls to find out how many Americans identify as feminists. 30 years ago, the answer was about 50%. Earlier this year, the poll (run this time by Huffington Post) found that while over 80 percent of Americans believed in equality for men and women, only 20% self-identified as feminists. This isn't just happening in America, in Britain that second figure is as low as 8%.
People stop calling themselves feminist because they don't want to be lumped in with the man-hating crazies.
As I sort of alluded to in my first post, feminism is no longer feminism. It's been co-opted by the cunts. Naturally, people don't want to be lumped in with a bunch of cunts and so the number of people that identify as feminists is small and trending downwards.
Last edited by Ele; Oct 18, 2016 at 01:58 AM.
Not to mention, most modern day feminist only touch on first world problems (catcalling, the non-existent wage gap, etc) while completely ignoring the blatant discrimination of women (and other minorities too) in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran. There seems to be a correlation between ignorance and feminism, or again, is this just them being a self absorbed movement?
