Okay, I personally am serving for the U.S. Army. So here's my standpoint:
I have nothing against transgender people, although being a transgender person in the military (in any branch), can cause some issues.
1.) Urinalysis drug testing is often done once a month. When drug tested, you have an observer of the same sex watch you give your sample. Now, knowing you can "identify" as a female but still not have gone through the actual surgical procedure, means you can be a male, with a penis, identifying as a female, being observed by a female.
2.) Showering in the field: When deployed or in a field training exercise, you will shower with that of the same sex. Scenario: Male identifying as a female, but still hasn't undergone surgical procedures (still has a penis), would be showering with females. Keep in mind, a 3rd shower group for transgenders is called segregation.
3.) PT Tests, or physical fitness tests: These have to be done at least once every 6 months, (at least for the Army). For those that don't know, these tests are scored differently by sex. Females have lower score requirements than males. What if a male identified as a female solely to score a 300 (Max score)? Also: females are exempt from PT tests if pregnant, but what if a transgender female, now a male, got pregnant?
4.) Deployment: similar to issue 3, females are undeployable if pregnant, but what if a transgender female, now a male, got pregnant?
5.) AR 670-1 (appearance regulation article). This is the article that says males have to shave, have tapered hair cuts, tattoo regulation, etc. For example: Imagine a transgender male, now a female, growing facial hair. Who would tell her to shave her face?
6.) Lodging is separate for males and females when in training. See issue 2.
I have nothing against transgender people, although being a transgender person in the military (in any branch), can cause some issues.
1.) Urinalysis drug testing is often done once a month. When drug tested, you have an observer of the same sex watch you give your sample. Now, knowing you can "identify" as a female but still not have gone through the actual surgical procedure, means you can be a male, with a penis, identifying as a female, being observed by a female.
2.) Showering in the field: When deployed or in a field training exercise, you will shower with that of the same sex. Scenario: Male identifying as a female, but still hasn't undergone surgical procedures (still has a penis), would be showering with females. Keep in mind, a 3rd shower group for transgenders is called segregation.
3.) PT Tests, or physical fitness tests: These have to be done at least once every 6 months, (at least for the Army). For those that don't know, these tests are scored differently by sex. Females have lower score requirements than males. What if a male identified as a female solely to score a 300 (Max score)? Also: females are exempt from PT tests if pregnant, but what if a transgender female, now a male, got pregnant?
4.) Deployment: similar to issue 3, females are undeployable if pregnant, but what if a transgender female, now a male, got pregnant?
5.) AR 670-1 (appearance regulation article). This is the article that says males have to shave, have tapered hair cuts, tattoo regulation, etc. For example: Imagine a transgender male, now a female, growing facial hair. Who would tell her to shave her face?
6.) Lodging is separate for males and females when in training. See issue 2.
[SIGPIC]:)[/SIGPIC]
These are legitimate concerns however simple measures can be put in place to accommodate for transgender people.
Originally Posted by abxy
1.) Urinalysis drug testing is often done once a month. When drug tested, you have an observer of the same sex watch you give your sample. Now, knowing you can "identify" as a female but still not have gone through the actual surgical procedure, means you can be a male, with a penis, identifying as a female, being observed by a female.
Ask them who they are confident being observed by.
2.) Showering in the field: When deployed or in a field training exercise, you will shower with that of the same sex. Scenario: Male identifying as a female, but still hasn't undergone surgical procedures (still has a penis), would be showering with females. Keep in mind, a 3rd shower group for transgenders is called segregation.
It might be segregation, but transgender bathrooms exist and the LGBT community is actively campaigning for more. If those are becoming a reality, why cant you let transgender people shower together? Or just shower with whatever gender they feel comfortable.
3.) PT Tests, or physical fitness tests: These have to be done at least once every 6 months, (at least for the Army). For those that don't know, these tests are scored differently by sex. Females have lower score requirements than males. What if a male identified as a female solely to score a 300 (Max score)? Also: females are exempt from PT tests if pregnant, but what if a transgender female, now a male, got pregnant?
This isn't really an issue. If a transgender male became pregnant then surely they would get the same exemptions, unless of course they didn't want them. As for the scoring, they should choose. If they were born female, but wish to take the harder tests for males, then so be it.
4.) Deployment: similar to issue 3, females are undeployable if pregnant, but what if a transgender female, now a male, got pregnant?
Same answer as 3. They would get the same exemptions, as they too are also pregnant.
5.) AR 670-1 (appearance regulation article). This is the article that says males have to shave, have tapered hair cuts, tattoo regulation, etc. For example: Imagine a transgender male, now a female, growing facial hair. Who would tell her to shave her face?
If they identify as a male, and are in the male section of the army then they should adhere to all the disciplinary procedures like everyone else. I'm sure they will be okay with that.
6.) Lodging is separate for males and females when in training. See issue 2.
Once again, either establish another lodge or allow them to bunk with whatever gender they identify with.
Allowing people to use whatever bathrooms/accommodation/whatever they like according to "what the identify as" which can be lied about can lead to issues. Here are 2 famous recent examples http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/05/transg...mates-6429321/ and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39337805 - I know criminals and the military are 2 very different sets of people, but the point is that problems would very well be able to arise.
Although its obviously unprovable whether they lied it raises questions as to whether people should be allowed to effectively choose what sex of prison they want to be allocated to. In a similar line of thought, being able to choose what bathrooms you use could be an issue as has been shown multiple times in cases such as this https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/u...voyeurism.html .
On the topic of physical tests, transgender men choosing what tests they want isnt a problem since they have the phsyical attributes and hormones of females since that is their biological sex. The issue is with transgender women, who have the physical attributes of men being tested by easier standards than they should be.
Although its obviously unprovable whether they lied it raises questions as to whether people should be allowed to effectively choose what sex of prison they want to be allocated to. In a similar line of thought, being able to choose what bathrooms you use could be an issue as has been shown multiple times in cases such as this https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/u...voyeurism.html .
On the topic of physical tests, transgender men choosing what tests they want isnt a problem since they have the phsyical attributes and hormones of females since that is their biological sex. The issue is with transgender women, who have the physical attributes of men being tested by easier standards than they should be.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
It's a tough subject, but those cases are definitely in the minority. A homosexual could also have "inappropriate behavior" with a member of the same gender, and that to me is no different than a trans person having intimate relations with a member of their new gender. By separating males and females you can't prevent these sexual acts taking place if you allow homosexuals in, and that's sort of the same logic when you let a transgender person in to the military.
If you allow one, then you should allow the other. People who argue that being transgender is a mental illness are thinking that it is unnatural and out of the ordinary, but so is homosexuality.
Also, it might be expensive to accommodate for transsexuals as opposed to homosexuals, as trans require extra measures in place, but I don't think that money is something to be niggardly over when people's rights are concerned.
If you allow one, then you should allow the other. People who argue that being transgender is a mental illness are thinking that it is unnatural and out of the ordinary, but so is homosexuality.
Also, it might be expensive to accommodate for transsexuals as opposed to homosexuals, as trans require extra measures in place, but I don't think that money is something to be niggardly over when people's rights are concerned.
Last edited by Wicked; Sep 11, 2017 at 12:01 PM.
>being a chick in the military = banned
>being a chick with a dick in the military = banned
sounds good to me.
Honestly i dont see what the issue is, if it were trans people banned from using bathrooms or establishments maby i'd care on a fundamental level but the military? shit i cant even do it on an imaginary level. oh boo hoo i dont get to kill people based off my sex im so upset that i cant be a reserve even though 100s of other people in my city are, its like a colorblind person not being able to fly a plane - i mean sure that sux it makes the color blind feel all sad inside but the rules aint gunna change and im sure theres a reason for it. prolly social issue, and you dont want your testosterone filled killing machines considering if its socially acceptable to deck a trans soldier.
Yes im being insensitive, it doesnt mean im being a dick.
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Please dont respond to my first two sentences they're misappropriations, and are intended to be satirical
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"2.) Showering in the field: When deployed or in a field training exercise, you will shower with that of the same sex. Scenario: Male identifying as a female, but still hasn't undergone surgical procedures (still has a penis), would be showering with females. Keep in mind, a 3rd shower group for transgenders is called segregation."
- dude no its fucking not, that is the dumbest shit i've heard in a while.
i say give them thier own bathroom, or let them use ours just end the issue now. we dont need to debate this shit.
>being a chick with a dick in the military = banned
sounds good to me.
Honestly i dont see what the issue is, if it were trans people banned from using bathrooms or establishments maby i'd care on a fundamental level but the military? shit i cant even do it on an imaginary level. oh boo hoo i dont get to kill people based off my sex im so upset that i cant be a reserve even though 100s of other people in my city are, its like a colorblind person not being able to fly a plane - i mean sure that sux it makes the color blind feel all sad inside but the rules aint gunna change and im sure theres a reason for it. prolly social issue, and you dont want your testosterone filled killing machines considering if its socially acceptable to deck a trans soldier.
Yes im being insensitive, it doesnt mean im being a dick.
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Please dont respond to my first two sentences they're misappropriations, and are intended to be satirical
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"2.) Showering in the field: When deployed or in a field training exercise, you will shower with that of the same sex. Scenario: Male identifying as a female, but still hasn't undergone surgical procedures (still has a penis), would be showering with females. Keep in mind, a 3rd shower group for transgenders is called segregation."
- dude no its fucking not, that is the dumbest shit i've heard in a while.
i say give them thier own bathroom, or let them use ours just end the issue now. we dont need to debate this shit.
Last edited by Cassh; Sep 13, 2017 at 08:43 AM.
Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
