HTOTM: FUSION
holy moly

no his win rate is nothing special


let's take a look at who can instagib an adc:
any1 with damage built and flash

i play adc and i dont whine about it, and imagine that, i'm ur elo.
Originally Posted by Kaneki333 View Post
I'm Brazilian, i'm alredy fucked every day i wake up

There are 82 champions above him if you organize win rate in TyZi's post.

And in these 82 champions, about 16 of them can do the same thing Rengar does (blowing up an adc). The only real difference? He can stealth.

There is honestly not a big problem with him.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
tfw you go 2-10 with renekton and still carry and have the most gold on your team. Split pushed the whole game, got 2 inhibs, 5 turrets, and 3 dragons. Ended with 400cs in a 33 minute game. No idea how we won but the pressure was too much and my team cleaned up.
♥Team Aikido-[Obey]-OoT-[Vibe]-Team Pokemon♥
Originally Posted by RAWWRH View Post
There are 82 champions above him if you organize win rate in TyZi's post.

And in these 82 champions, about 16 of them can do the same thing Rengar does (blowing up an adc). The only real difference? He can stealth.

There is honestly not a big problem with him.

Well, that is the problem. Balancing stealth isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world though. That's why Evelynn went from being a Goddess in the jungle to utter shit for a long while (kinda still is imo).

I honestly think Kha is more balanced even though I think he's stronger.

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"they're like enormous pillows of disgusting girly meat" ~Orih 2016
My Replays
Originally Posted by SparChar View Post
Well, that is the problem. Balancing stealth isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world though. That's why Evelynn went from being a Goddess in the jungle to utter shit for a long while (kinda still is imo).

I honestly think Kha is more balanced even though I think he's stronger.

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Eve is different, she has more possibility to dishing out damage to group than a single target.

Rengar is single target delete, and if he fails to do that (and his target was near team mates) he is probably dead.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Alright let me clear this up since I'm slowly losing my sanity because of this debate. Rengar can 100-0 a poorly positioned carry. Right? All in agreement? Other assassins can do this as well, Ahri, Zed, Fizz, and Talon to name a few. If your Jinx is farming alone in bot lane while one of these champions is on the opposing team, she is going to get blown the fuck up as a result of her poor decision making.

That is what we have established so far. I'm not saying that Rengar can 1v5 an entire team, I'm not saying his win rate is retarded and he should be removed from the game, I'm not even saying he's broken conceptually. What I'm saying so far is that he, among other assassins, can easily kill an adc in the blink of an eye.

Now this is where counter play comes in. Let's say that a fed Ahri wants to kill your Jinx while she is standing beside her Lulu in mid lane. Any number of things can happen here. Lulu can ult the Jinx to increase her health as well as shield her, polymorph the ahri/speed up the Jinx to get her out of harm's way. Jinx can outplay, flash the charm and use the speed boost from Lulu to avoid both paths of Ahri's orb and actually turn the attempt around for a kill. Ahri can outplay, cleanse the polymorph, predict a flash, and zhonyas any retaliation damage before using the last charges of her ult to get out safely.

So that's where we are now. Any number of exchanges have happened taking into account the skill on the part of all three players.

Now let's change the Ahri into a fed Rengar who wants to kill the Jinx. Let's also assume that Lulu has a pink ward ready to get placed as soon as she sees or hears any indication of a Rengar ult. Rengar ults in, goes stealthed, and activates youmuu's. Because of his largely increased movespeed while in ult as well as youmuu's, Lulu only has a fraction of a second to register the appearance of the visual and audio cues of Rengar's ult, place the pink, and polymorph the Rengar before he can leap onto her carry.

We okay so far?

Given that that's incredibly hard to do, we can assume that Rengar has started his leaping animation. In mid leap he has readied his empowered Q, popped his W, used his hydra active, and thrown a bola, all of which will proc thunderlord's decree once it hits Jinx, dealing even more damage, and then resetting his Q on landing. This is possible, I've done it myself as I'm sure you have too at some point.

So we've agreed that this is what happens.

Depending on the Rengar's build this is upwards of 1.5k damage in about half a second. Now let's assume that Lulu has the reflexes of a god and, in the fraction of a second before Rengar resets his basic Q, is able to polymorph and exhaust him, all while shielding and ulting the Jinx. This is now where the room for outplay comes in, as Rengar is able to cleanse the polymorph, and buffer Q flash before using the movespeed from his ult to seal the deal. Jinx can also flash heal away, and use the aoe slow from Lulu to kite Rengar around before killing him instead.

The problem with this when compared with other fed assassins is that the room for outplay comes after the main burst has already been dealt.

Has this always been a staple of Rengars kit? Yep. The problem is vision, since now Oracle's Lens had its true sight removed, the only valid option to locating stealthed units is a pink ward, which as we established earlier, takes time to react with and place. The complete deletion of stealth wards means there is a much less likely chance to pick up Rengar as he's ulting on the minimap, unless your team is consistently refreshing their 78 second yellow trinket wards and spamming their blue trinkets, which can easily be detected and destroyed if the enemy is doing the same.

This, combined with the AD scaling burst introduced with thunderlords, has resulted more often than not in Rengar dealing 90% of his burst from stealth before effectively counterplaying is even an option.

Is it even possible to counter him though? Yeah, you can have champs like Nautilus or Poppy sit on top of your carry and peel for them as soon as Rengar leaves stealth. This is an effective measure for other assassins as well. The difference is that Rengar all but necessitates this, as in a teamfight, dealing 90% of his burst is going to be more than enough to allow his team to follow up and clean up what little health remains on the adc. Very few if any of the other 82 champions in the game demand this kind of response with their presence alone, and while it is possible to address it, it forces people into roles they may not want to play simply for the sake of a victory, and requires a level of communication and teamwork that isn't always there in solo queue games.



Can we please stop this ride now I'd like to get off.
Preposterously dank.