no one is going to stand still for your full spider w duration, you're getting more damage out of human q > spider q. period.

Last I checked, Elise had a stun. And last I checked, you will usually still have red by level 4-5. Andd you almost never get the chance to use spider q as a true execute and use it more like a gap closer, which aids W effectiveness.

Damage increases by Q are still lower than damage increases with W before they generate any resistances.

A 2 second stun at max level, hahahahahaha
Sounds like you need to pick up on your mechanics with Elise. Last I checked, E was a pretty good gapcloser compared to Q.

Q human form + Q spider form = more than W.

Last I checked, the average champion in league has access to at least 1 form of escape on a high cooldown, and slightly less have an additional one on a much lower cooldown. You land human E, you use human Q and W, they flash, you use spider E to get back on them, they use another escape, you use Q to get close again. They've now expended all resources, you've maintained all of yours, and you're still in close enough range to use W.

All of my assumptions of early points in W is assuming that you will get at least 1, usually 2, maybe 3 ganks off before level 6. Assuming all of this, blowing all of your spells in an attempt to burst somebody down can leave you walking away, in a bad case scenario, from the lane with either the laner's resources blown, but no kill to show for it, or you got a kill, but probably blew flash. Plus you're hinging all of this on a narrow skillshot that could have been dodged anyways. A measured use of spells will keep you well within range of your target for at least partially optimal use of W, still get the early damage increase from W, get a faster and safer clear for less volatile ganks, and expend less of your own resources to get a kill off a gank.

I'm not arguing that W is the first max, I'm arguing that for the early levels pre-6, it's better to have points in W because of a greater return on investment. It's always a Q max first because of Q being used more than once per gank on average past level 6, but you're never going to take advantage of it's cd at early levels. You'll get one rotation off at most, so you want the greatest return on damage in 1 rotation.

...im gonna leave it at that wall of text, what are you ganking that you can use all your resources and continue fighting pre 6? dragon pit? flash + escape is turret range, your assumptions would probably not happen unless you're playing in elo hell

Assuming you landed everything at level 5 as Elise, with no lane damage, masteries, items or buffs included, with 3 auto attacks, you would deal only ~540 damage before and %hp bonus damage from Q. If we don't include any auto attacks, that's only ~320 damage. Even Anivia has more health than that by level 5. Enemies WILL survive you blowing all your resources. Even if you include items, full damage still tops out at ~600 before %hp modifiers, and that's assuming you landed everything, assuming no resistances.

Flash + escape is only turret range if you ganked them when they were getting pushed in for the side lanes. And mid laners don't always retreat back to turrets when people gank, they can always retreat into river. Flash + escape is not a guaranteed get out of jail free card.

last i checked elise is still annoying


I think warwick's skillset is pretty much ok. Does he really need a rework??

his q is boring and tbh quite strong, his w is pretty okay, but also boring, his e is nice, and his ult is quite strong but quite stupid, his kit is boring overall, and he's not in a good place atm.

Warwick is also a champ who's so simple he could become boring to some. Most of his abilities usually just require clicking on a target and thats it.


Edit: CertainlyT will be the Designer on Warwick when his rework. He was who designed Darius, Thresh, Zyra, Yauso, and Kalista.

warwick sucks, half his kit is useless, even more if people know how to buy qss.
q does nothing
w is ACTUALLY ok
e is useless
r is gonna be qss'd