Originally Posted by kwygon

Obama has not accomplished anything in the Middle East as I have clearly proved to you.
He firstly has not done anything to stop the nuclear research and construction in the Middle East so he has done nothing to do with ridding the world of nuclear weapons.
-blah-

"For example, bridging gaps with the Muslim world"
He has achieved nothing in that regard either.
The Muslims and Israelis have come no closet to peace and he has only driven one of America’s closest allies away.
As my earliest example showed you. I am not sure you have read anything in this thread so far.

Once he pulls out of Iraq there will be extreme consequences.
-blah-

Originally Posted by kwygon

No, it’s not peoples well being. Public health care is their well being. A public hospital will charge you nothing to treat you. A private hospital can charge whatever they want and if you don’t like it go somewhere else. It’s the way the world works. What Obama seeks to reform is the Medical Aid system. That is of course when you pay a company and if you need a medical procedure they pay for you to get it. That is a privilege. The poor can get the same public health care as those who don’t have medical aid. What you are talking about is communism.

Originally Posted by kwygon

Where everybody is equal and what you do doesn’t count. The poor are not being victimized. The businesses are trying to make a profit and are not specifically targeting the poor. If you can’t afford it don’t buy it. If you can’t afford an education get that rather, so that you can get a decent job when you are older. I see you agree with me there. Do we tax people so that poor people can buy cars? It’s exactly the same. It is another private initiative and therefore it is not the responsibility of those who have to provide for those who don’t. Even out the money? That just bullshit. That is just communism.

Originally Posted by kwygon

Obama has attempted to pass several bills which have been shot down by a senate that his party controls.
Most famously his health bill was recently set forward.
What it entailed was a government run health care system in which the taxes which were already raised for the rich/middle class are being raised again to provide cheap health care for the poor.
If we look at it most employers already provide health care for their employees, so there are only very very few people without health care.
This bill will also create a one trillion dollar loss over the period of 10 years, which is money that the US government does not have.
After all we are in a recession.

Originally Posted by SmileyJones

1.Medical procedures should not be a "privilege", because at some point or another everybody needs them. 2.There are middle-class families out there losing their homes because insurance premiums are out of control. You regulate the insurance companies, you give them competition, and you'll be easing the economic burden on a large part of the population. Do you want a way to fix the economy? People need money to spend! 3.Reforming the corruption of these private insurance companies is a long overdue way to improve the standard of living for the middle class. I'm sure even the wealthy would save money on their premiums, at the expense of a s4.light tax increase. You're looking out for the best interests of the wealthy, 5.while the country as a whole suffers.

6.And when the lower and middle class have no money, the rich have no way to make money. Everybody loses. We all need each other.

EDIT: 7.Also, you keep bringing up free hospitals. Could you point me to one in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, that provides free care to everyone and not just people under a certain household income? Because even if what you're talking about does exist it might be useless for middle class households. I've been looking and I can't find any.

Originally Posted by steve

God, everyone is blaming all the shit that is happening now on Obama.
Does anyone have the hindsight to look back and see HOW this all happened?
Obama can't manipulate time, he said so himself, he won't be able to fix things in one year, possibly even one term.
And universal healthcare refom =/= communism?
If McCain was president we would be so fucked right now.
Republicans need to stop throwing sissy tantrums and actually wise up and stop being retards. Obama's gonna be in office until 2012, they need to get that through their heads and stop voting against every policy Obama puts out. We will never get anything done this way.
Most of this is just genuine nitpicking.
WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS IN THE US AS IT IS.
WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THAT.
EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE PUT ON HOLD.
More later.

Originally Posted by Ragdollmaster

Hey guys, since Odlov hasn't shown up yet, I accept the privilege of firing his argument at the Sun.



Protip; taxes, as in the increased governmental taxes being imposed on the rich (OH BOO HOO THEY CAN ONLY AFFORD TO WAX THEIR FERRARIS EVERY OTHER DAY NOW INSTEAD OF DAILY) are what pay for public hospitals, just like they pay for public schools, law enforcement, and the fire department. Nobody expects private hospitals to let in poor people for free, but how can public hospitals treat people if the hospital doesn't have enough money? This is why we've got taxes.



Yes, it is a privilege. It's a privilege that people who can afford to pay for Med-Aid aren't incapable of doing so because they're, say, immigrants from war-torn countries (Former Yugoslavia, anyone?) whose education isn't recognized by the OH SO GREAT COUNTRY OF AMERIKAH, or can't get an education and therefore can't get a high-paying job because they can't afford it. All people, however, have the right to health care, and this is typically provided by taxes because FYI, Bill Gates and Oprah cannot pay for every single poor person's health care. Charities have their place, but taxes take a little bit of money from a whole lot of people and in turn are able to provide needed services.



True, none of the rich are running around stabbing the poor because they know the poor won't be able to limp into an ER, but poor people are more less being thrown out into the cold by rich companies just looking to make a profit. "Oh, your little four year old cancer-induced son needs a kidney transplant? I see, and would you be able to come up with $90,000? No? Sorry, why don't you try the soup kitchen down the street?"



1) People being able to stay alive is a universal right, and while it has its place as a business, if you believe people should die because they can't afford to pay for health care then you, good sir, should go drown in a pile of capitalist shit.
2) People who can't afford an education can't get a good job and therefore can get neither insurance from a good job or can pay for private insurance because they're barely able to make ends meet.
3) I barely repressed the urge to track you down via IP address and smack you in the face with a large hammer for comparing private transportation to the value of a human life. Paying health taxes is not the same as pampering everyone who can't afford to pamper themselves.
4) It isn't the responsibility for the rich to pay for the poor. It is the responsibility for a human to help another human stay alive.
5) This isn't communism or socialism where people are getting everything equally. This is forking over what basically equates to fucking pocket change so that someone less privileged than you can stay alive. Where do you see in America rich people being hauled off to exile and their assets being repossessed so that poor people can split up the money? Because that's what happened in Eastern Europe during WWII. If you made a lot of money and lived near Russia, chances are you would get hauled off to Siberia for being a capitalist- which constitutes you being an enemy of the GREAT NATION.



tl;dr: You're an ignorant moron who needs to suck it up and stop believing everything being spewed out by rich people who are mad they can't afford six Yachts anymore due to taxes and these idiots who don't support Obama because they think the fact that Obama hasn't turned the entire world into a sparkling utopia yet means he's a shitty president and is proof that he's a lying commie trying to take away the HARD EARNED MONEY of the rich.

tl;dr;tl;dr: Learn not to believe propaganda and get over yourself. Kthxbye.

Originally Posted by Gubbin1

@Bold: "poor people got into some mess they should get themselves out"

Also, I didn't misunderstand. So the concept is that rich people pay a larger percent than poor people? You mean like the graduated tax brackets we have had since the founding of our country? You mean to tell me that people without the means to pay will have to pay less?
THIS MUST BE STOPPED

Originally Posted by SLAPPED

You know I could argue with but what would be the point when you obviously have no intention of even considering that someone else might be correct?

Originally Posted by Pirate

First of all, just because he hasn't done 'anything' with nuclear weapons in the middle east doesn't mean he hasn't done anything with nuclear weapons.
1.For example, recently Obama was pursuing a treaty with Russia to reduce the amount of nuclear warheads down to 1,000 on both sides. Tell me how that is doing 'nothing.' The outcome of the proposal is irrelevant, it's not his fault if the other signer refuses to sign, and the fact that he proposed it in the first place means he is '2.doing' something about it.

Secondly, the acting general of US forces in Afghanistan/Iraq/whatever has done a lot to make their people not hate us. Bombing the living shit out of everything including citizens doesn't wor3.k. Point in case: Majority of the last 5 or 6 years. 4.You can't even fight guerrilla warfare effectively, having the citizens in the country die by the thousands (innocently) just gives more numbers to the insurgents.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Blam

1.If not many people need it, why would it cost a trillion dollar loss over 10 years?

If just the losses are a trillion dollars (so it would be costing more but money coming out of taxes lessens the load), 2.think of how much the people who would get the healthcare are having to pay.

3.How can they afford it?

Unless there's something I'm simply not getting here. (I'm just going on what you've said - I'm from England :P)

Originally Posted by Dalir

Uh, that link about how Obama alienated Israel?

1.It has 1000 ads for "Sarah Palin's NEW BOOK!" and anti-Obama propaganda ads. You expect anyone to take you seriously?

Their way of writing in the article is to make him seem like a weak jackass (using expressions like "he picked a fight" and that he is merely a "messenger".)

How much do you expect a new president to be able to do by himself? Greedy republicans like you are the exact reason he won't be able to improve your country one bit. I'd expect these kind of posts from a troll, but seeing as you're serious, arguing with you is pointless.

EDIT: Hey cool, did you play that "Defeat Obama and his Allies" game on Power Line yet?
EDIT2: Sorry oracle for the accidental edit on your post, didn't change anything.

Originally Posted by kwygon

1.The procedures are not a privilege. You can easily receive a free necessary treatment and procedure at a public hospital.

2. Then don’t buy insurance from those companies. Nobody forced them to. There are many companies that are completely reasonable with prices.

3.It is changing nothing for the middle class. It is only for the extremely poor.

4. It is a major increase. The second one. And their premiums will be no less. The government will provide free health insurance for the poor.

5.The poor may be suffering. But the country as a whole is not. The middle class people are just that. If you can’t afford to keep your house you are fairly poor I would say. That is why they call them the middle class. And they in no way will benefit from this

6.Nobody suffers. The country is doing fine. The recession was not caused by health care. It was caused by the stupidity of the money lenders around the world who went bankrupt and led to people losing the money that they invested.

7. it’s called a public hospital. A government hospital. They run based on government funds and if you can’t afford to pay, you don’t pay.

Originally Posted by kwygon

1)People can stay alive without medical aid. They always do. The hospitals treat them. Have you ever seen a hospital find a dying man on the street and check if he insured first? No, what they do is save their life. Look up the Hippocratic oath.

Originally Posted by kwygon

2)So these people need health insurance. Perfect. Let’s not let the hospitals care for them for FREE and we will completely disregard the fact that they are starving like you said. Very logical.

Originally Posted by kwygon

)Your third point makes no sense. They aren’t paying health taxes whatever that is. What they are doing is becoming reliant on the government for health insurance. We are not pampering or doing them any good. It enables them to do whatever they want medically and charge it to medical aid, of which they will now pay now premiums. I preferred the old system. If you needed health care you went to a public hospital and got is. If you couldn’t afford it, you still got it. Now... al that’s happening is that the tax payers have to pay for it.

Originally Posted by kwygon

4)Very good, let’s all eat marshmallows. It’s their choice whether they want to be good people or not. I work every Sunday raising money for charities. I actually do no matter what you think. It’s my choice. I don’t have to. I don’t have to pay more taxes to give them food. But I want to, and I do. Why be forced by the government.

5)Tax is not pocket change. You should see the difference in your gross and net salary. Its astronomical.

For the record, insulting me doesn’t make you right.

Protip; taxes, as in the increased governmental taxes being imposed on the rich (OH BOO HOO THEY CAN ONLY AFFORD TO WAX THEIR FERRARIS EVERY OTHER DAY NOW INSTEAD OF DAILY) are what pay for public hospitals, just like they pay for public schools, law enforcement, and the fire department. Nobody expects private hospitals to let in poor people for free, but how can public hospitals treat people if the hospital doesn't have enough money? This is why we've got taxes.

Yes, it is a privilege. It's a privilege that people who can afford to pay for Med-Aid aren't incapable of doing so because they're, say, immigrants from war-torn countries (Former Yugoslavia, anyone?) whose education isn't recognized by the OH SO GREAT COUNTRY OF AMERIKAH, or can't get an education and therefore can't get a high-paying job because they can't afford it. All people, however, have the right to health care, and this is typically provided by taxes because FYI, Bill Gates and Oprah cannot pay for every single poor person's health care. Charities have their place, but taxes take a little bit of money from a whole lot of people and in turn are able to provide needed services.

True, none of the rich are running around stabbing the poor because they know the poor won't be able to limp into an ER, but poor people are more less being thrown out into the cold by rich companies just looking to make a profit. "Oh, your little four year old cancer-induced son needs a kidney transplant? I see, and would you be able to come up with $90,000? No? Sorry, why don't you try the soup kitchen down the street?"