Secret Santa 2024
Polygraphs are useless. They don't just respond to lies, they also respond to any kind of alteration the subject is having. Anger, fear, "hornyness?", or any other kind of emotions that may alter the answers.

I'd rather be tortured than drugged and/or mind-read.

Because think about it like this. When you're about to be tortured, I'm sure they're going to tell you, instead of just dive in with whatever procedure they have planned. So you don't have to be tortured. You have a choice. Choice is the key word there. They're going to say something like "You can tell us, or we'll burn your face off or whatever." Don't criticize me for that bad example; they're clearly not going to burn your face off, because then you wouldn't be able to tell them the info. And when they tell you that, I'd be like "Yeah okay -says coordinates- that's where he is." And then boom. You're not tortured. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would do that, even though I have highly sensitive skin and senses so I'd be like f***ed. You see, if they're going to put some weirdass helmet on your head and insert tubes in your ears/nose or if they're going to drug you, then it's a complete invasion of privacy. I believe that everyone deserves their privacy, whether they're planning on blowing up Earth or if they've donated $10,000,000 to cancer and found a cure. Everyone deserves to be able to keep a secret. But they also have a chance to share the secret.

Also, darkspace, polygraphs aren't always accurate, and the government would be pretty embarrassed if some guy was like "yo im not guna blow you up" and they're like, "Okay, the box says he's telling the truth." and they let him free, then he goes and nukes us. I was watching Judge Judy the other day (yeah, I'm a twelve year old that watches Judge Judy) and there was a woman who was pressured by her whole family into taking a polygraph test, and then she was so nervous that it was messing up her thoughts, and the thing said she lied, when she later proved that she didn't lie.

Edit: Ninja'd. :P

<~oyster> i want you to fart near my mouth
Originally Posted by m0o View Post
This would rob people of their right to withhold information, however and as such would be a greater injustice than torture.

Says you.
What about people who are mistakenly suspected to hold crucial info, and are tortured as a result? They either have to lie (thereby wasting our resources and facing brutal consequences) or attempt to last through it.
Moreover, think of what brain scans could do for death row criminals. Absolute, inerrant way to determine the guilt of a suspect. No more innocents dying.
At the very least, undergoing the scan should be a voluntary option for captive.
Last edited by Odlov; May 29, 2010 at 06:27 PM.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
Says you.
What about people who are mistakenly suspected to hold crucial info, and are tortured as a result? They either have to lie (thereby wasting our resources and facing brutal consequences) or attempt to last through it.
Moreover, think of what brain scans could do for death row criminals. Absolute, inerrant way to determine the guilt of a suspect. No more innocents dying.
At the very least, undergoing the scan should be a voluntary option for captive.

The thing is, they wouldn't stop at making it voluntary, seeing as the governments of the world and certain religions would censor and potentially kill people over what they THINK. A new era of 'evil' would appear. A new era of censorship. The consequences of this 'discovery' would be unimaginable.

Also, there are better ideas. You do realize there are people short of utter genius in psychology. You could throw him in the cell with an agent, an agent who completely understands his mindset and can speak his language and can pretend to also be a terrorist. There are plenty of other things that can happen before resorting to destruction of human rights and a worldwide censor.
Last edited by Hyde; May 29, 2010 at 08:22 PM.
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
Basically, what do you do if words fail?

Well, ideally the country would move on, consider the prisoner a lost hope for getting info from and just keep them detained and maybe try them again every so often. You might not get the info out of them, but you also make good on all that schlock your PR folks tell everyone you care about, like justice, fairness, and being "better" than the average terrorist. It's a tad naive, I know :P and Im not totally against physichal coercsion, just not to the extent that the US was found to be using in Abu Grabe (probably spelled wrong)


Originally Posted by C0XY View Post
Okay I did it... What was it I did again, I forgot but Im sure I did it just dont hurt me.

How the fuck is that proof of anything? Its more likly to result in the person responcable being free to walk the streets.

That's a very good point. When does the line between trying to get info from a brainwashed person become simply re-brainwashing the person through pain and stress?

Originally Posted by m0o View Post
They cannot kill you during torture (assuming we are talking about the US). They'll give up eventually.

Sure, they can't sodomize you or water board you either. I'm sure they could, and have covered up a few dead folks. "Oh no, we accidentally this random terrorists whole life!" "throw him and in the ocean and be done with it" that sort of thing.
Organisation of Awesome: Member.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
So you would rather physically torture people than peek into their private information?
Keep in mind that only people who are suspected to have crucial information would be subjected, eg captive terrorists.

I am all for privacy myself, but between inflicting suffering and taking a peek in someone's head, i think the latter is more humane and efficient.

Hey would you enjoy it if they could know who you laid or not,
Childhoodmemories, very personal shit i would not liek thewm knowing when i last farted,got laid(i havent yet),or other stuff...knowing someone knows what you know could cause mental issues as paranoya or insanity
Life is like staring at drying paint. The longer it goes on, the more you want to smash your face in.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
Honestly i think it's more of a movie thing (but I'm no expert).
As far as i know, you can get a person intoxicated and impede their judgment, but that doesn't guarantee they will let the relevant info out.

Certain drugs like sodium pentathol ('truth serum') just alter higher cognitive function. If a person is given the right physical dosage and put into the right mental state (eg if they really believe or think there's an even remote chance that the drug will force them to tell the truth) then yes, it can essentially 'force' someone to tell what they think is the truth. The main problem with using cognition-altering drugs is the results can be unpredictable, and using them effectively involves a very delicate balance between the physio and the psycho; additionally, it's hard to differentiate between a successful use and a failed use until the information can be verified, and even if you use it successfully, there's always the chance that the prisoner was told a lie on purpose to shield whatever group or organization he came from.
How to complain in style: GG, Mahulk.
Originally Posted by m0o View Post
This would rob people of their right to withhold information, however and as such would be a greater injustice than torture.

Rights are an illusion.