Originally Posted by Vox
Yes, because he totally said raise it to $100, that's exactly his position, you utterly missed the point here, and presented no arguments, go watch the news, you are ill equipped for this discussion.
Ho hum. Sure is a welcome environment 'round here now.
Okay then. Since you kinda missed the whole economic principle that applies to raising the minimum wage which I implied, I'll just explain it.
Other than the obvious result of price inflation, raising the minimum wage will almost always result in higher unemployment rates. This is because a greater number of people are willing to work at the higher wage while a smaller numbers of jobs will be available at the higher wage. Companies can be more selective in those whom they employ thus the least skilled and least experienced will typically be excluded.
This is just textbook economics. What's even more scary is that the proportion between wage increase and unemployment isn't always necessarily equal.
I didn't miss any point. I countered his point. Then I gave my observation. It's what people do in discussions.
I've seen a few of your posts and their usually just sophistry coupled with a few casual gratuitous insults. Sounds like your ill-equipped for civilised discussion. Seriously though man, just try being more friendly.
edit; also, just felt like saying, raising taxes on big corps again just leads to greater unemployment rates as well. How high an employer is willing to bid for an employee is limited by the amount that will be added to the employer's revenue by hiring that worker or such workers. But an employee whose output adds $50,000 to the company's sales receipt is not worth $50,000 if social security taxes, unemployment taxes and whatever else taxes you want to raise are added. Ergo less jobs, ergo unemployment.
Other than that, raising taxes on big corps/businesses also actually prevents growth, innovation and actually provides incentives for them to move elsewhere, resulting in less money for the government and less jobs for the people.
As for the poverty note, the majority of people living in poverty in the US have adequate shelter, food, clothing and medical care and even a vehicle (source because you won't believe me *click*). The US judges its poverty relatively, by comparing it's richest with it's poorest. Those who say US poverty levels are 3rd world country standards disregard the realities of the situation.
Last edited by Rutten; Oct 13, 2011 at 04:54 PM.
Originally Posted by Boredpayne
America is an economic superpower. It can and should be able to ensure that nobody goes hungry or untreated. Then what is all the complaining about? We can sure see that you're all more then well fed.
Now maybe you don't realize that the entire country doesn't have HBO, or that a global economic market doesn't really mean squat to a guy who's buying at Safeway and Target I particularly mean Safeway or Target, as well as Ross, Publix, Netflix, and free kitchen appliances. You guys are the only ones in the world who can not have a dime in the bank and still have a car from after 2005 and wear a full prada outfit, you shouldn't only not complain about that, you should be proud of it , or that in fact we DON'T have free healthcare for anyone under 65, but it's true, it really is.
Maybe we might be a tad peeved when....
our income gap is that of a third world country When my mother owned a resturant in Brazil, she had to pay her employees with like 3 or 4 kids living without a husband 300 reais a month, how big is your income?
the billionaires and larger businesses get taxed LESS instead of more
we can't pay for vital social programs because billionaires and larger businesses aren't willing to pay said more and lobby against paying more furiously I don't know, this is one of those "citation needed" moments. I hear about it alot but in my lifetime I have not met one genuinely evil corporate bulldog. Talking about the sabotaging of social programs, not the shitty taxing. decent healthcare is restricted to the selfish upper middle class, apparently the idea of helping poor children with cancer is revolting to them
But yes, we have absolutely NO reason to complain and to do so is just whiny. There's some humor to this, I was talking to my old Brazilian doctor and I'll make a thread about America's flawed health system and why it's so expensive in a minute.
Every modern government is currently trying to achieve equality through programs such as welfare and healthcare....by the way, the reason communism is not a viable economic system is because when you're guaranteed reward you have no incentive to work, it has little to do with dictatorship.
About that, let me go a little off-topic. Communism isn't so related to work quality, otherwise America's capitalistic mindset would dominate, but I've been working with Americans the last few days and you guys are really lazy and bad at working whereas the Chinese or Indians or pretty much anyone to the right of the map is not only dedicated but quick-thinking and fast. I'd say it's more of a culture thing.
Socialist capitalism (and don't pretend it's a dirty word, every first-world country ever is to some degree socialist) fixes this by still giving incentive to work but also rescuing the desperate and hungry (which cuts down on crime and provides more jobs by doing so).
I mean, I totally get that, Brazil's last president (and still 3rd party president, shut up it's true), Lula, did everything in his power so that the lower class had an easier time and more opportunities to work, while still feeding the bankers and overly rich side of the country to keep himself on the high chair. But if what you want is to have a society of entirely middle-classed people, then you have Fidel Castro's shitty yet good-intended mindset. It's hard for a politician to walk on the fine line of nationally similar lifestyles while still having a leading economy.
dicks
<&Fish>: did you just infract the toribot?
<&Fish>: you're fired
<&Fish>: you're fired
<JSnuffMARS> sounds like a drug-addiction or mastu(I'll censor that word)
<bishopONE>: also yeah fisting
<mwah> Gynx is it true you got admin over hero because hes from pakistan
Originally Posted by sid
the billionaires and larger businesses get taxed LESS instead of more
we can't pay for vital social programs because billionaires and larger businesses aren't willing to pay said more and lobby against paying more furiously I don't know, this is one of those "citation needed" moments. I hear about it alot but in my lifetime I have not met one genuinely evil corporate bulldog. Talking about the sabotaging of social programs, not the shitty taxing.
http://houseofpolitics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8017, This man just got A large amount of land and actually got paid for it, when he was more than capable of paying for it, sure the firefighters got some good training for a day, but these situations are extremely common in the wealthy. Not to mention the fact that the 330,000 that was deducted from his taxes are gonna have to be made up by others in the economy, and probably not the rich ones who have found other ways to get things for free even though they have all the money to cover the costs.....because they like to keep the money they have and get more....
Originally Posted by sid
decent healthcare is restricted to the selfish upper middle class, apparently the idea of helping poor children with cancer is revolting to them But yes, we have absolutely NO reason to complain and to do so is just whiny. There's some humor to this, I was talking to my old Brazilian doctor and I'll make a thread about America's flawed health system and why it's so expensive in a minute.
Please do.
Originally Posted by sid
Every modern government is currently trying to achieve equality through programs such as welfare and healthcare....by the way, the reason communism is not a viable economic system is because when you're guaranteed reward you have no incentive to work, it has little to do with dictatorship.
About that, let me go a little off-topic. Communism isn't so related to work quality, otherwise America's capitalistic mindset would dominate, but I've been working with Americans the last few days and you guys are really lazy and bad at working whereas the Chinese or Indians or pretty much anyone to the right of the map is not only dedicated but quick-thinking and fast. I'd say it's more of a culture thing.
You have the right to call all of us who live in the U.S. lazy. But now I don't really value your opinion at all and I'm sure you don't care because I'm a dick, right? I work very hard for my 600-700 dollars a month, whereas my rent is 780 a month. I am lucky because I have a significant other who won the parent lottery and actually has a future already payed for her...Thats right she's in the 1%, but we do not spend more than we need, and we do not take more from our system because we are lucky (I don't even own a car, like so many of my friends). And we have plans in our future to give back to our communities lower and middle class once we are finished with school.
Originally Posted by sid
dicks
You're great. And also I have the right to say whatever I feel about your opinion, but I choose to leave it at you're great....
;)
Last edited by skywalkr; Oct 14, 2011 at 12:38 AM.
{HUNTERS}
Originally Posted by FNugget
My parents came to the US with nothing about 35yrs ago, and yet here I am without having to touch a student loan, never using credit/debt, living comfortably renting, have a car, have a dual core smartphone, have a gym membership, and yet only spending about 40% of my income while the other 60% is in savings. I don't smoke, rarely have an alcoholic drink, not fat. I didn't even have to work during high school, nor during college.
Uh, I call bullshit. How did you get through college without working before or during, and never have any debt?
Are your parents rich or something? Did they pay for college for you? If so then I don't think having rich parents who pay for stuff for you puts you in the 99%
When I see you, my heart goes DOKI⑨DOKI
Fish: "Gorman has been chosen for admin. After a lengthy discussion we've all decided that Gorman is the best choice for the next admin."
@Gorman: Nope, not rich, but enough to pay for my college education. I didn't get full ride, but my scholarships dropped tuition to short of 2k/semester. Nevertheless, if you would consider that rich, then that would mean my war refugee parents who didn't know any english became rich in 35yrs. We almost never go out to restaurants to eat, don't go to the movie theater, vacation only every 6 years, dad still drives a truck as old as I am, don't own a video game console, no cable TV, DSL internet, no attending sporting events...
Instead of simply buying a new house and selling the old one, we just rented out the old one. It became annoying to drive there to do repairs, so we sold it and got the one across the street for renting. Minor investment in gold, some investment in stocks, treasury bonds...no big winners there. Helped put capital money to start a family friend's store, from which we get $100 a month.
Now that I think about it, my 40% expenditure rate is fucking extravagant compared to what my parents probably spent.
If this makes us the rich 1%, then the 99% must have screwed up somewhere.
Instead of simply buying a new house and selling the old one, we just rented out the old one. It became annoying to drive there to do repairs, so we sold it and got the one across the street for renting. Minor investment in gold, some investment in stocks, treasury bonds...no big winners there. Helped put capital money to start a family friend's store, from which we get $100 a month.
Now that I think about it, my 40% expenditure rate is fucking extravagant compared to what my parents probably spent.
If this makes us the rich 1%, then the 99% must have screwed up somewhere.
The reduction from 40% tax to 35% tax to the highest tax bracket was a partial cause of the US's financial crisis.