Originally Posted by deprav
Thank you Orcale, I lost some sleep over this thread last night, I was about to lose faith in humanity.
You people need to start doubting and build a sense of critiscism, probably watch less TV and read more. Hell, you have the internet and access to endless culture & informations, you shouldn't be allowed to say "Poor people are poor because they'r lazy ass crack smoking bums who chose to be unhappy", that's just plainly stupid.
Any man has a natural wish to be happy; the quest for bliss is a human condition afterall. But maybe it doesn't work the way you actually understand it (being a rich selfish douchebag with a pool and a big car).
Start asking yourselves questions, like why do we live in society? where does money come from? [you can ask this one to google] if being poor is a choice, why some countries like Greece are "getting poor" all at once? And other simple stuffs to begin with. I can assure you'll probably be glad you asked yourselves those questions later.
As for people wondering stuffs about communism. Politics ain't a bi-lateral concept, we have endless possibilities when it comes to taking decisions about how to rule society, not making it capitalism doesn't make it communism.
Plus, communism is an erroneous system in a world which works on a capitalist basis, it's like trying to spread margarine on butter : there's no fucking point.
And the "hardworking" concept is bullcrap. From which point of view do you considere a work harder than another ?
Nurses earn shit, tho I find that job way more difficult than sitting behind a desk playing with numbers.
Well, yes! It's kind of supposed to be like this in certain countries, or at least big fortunes pay like XX% (66% in France) tax. but there will always be ways to cheat, tax havens, frauds etc... real big fortunes generally declare only a part of their incomes or total wealth.
I won't write pages of phylosophical point of view cause I already did this in that thread called "Impact of currency", but basically our mind and conception of the world shapes themselves depending on the environnement we're growing in.
Means our perception has been shapped by years of capitalism, generation after generation until it explodes (soon... soon.). Our behaviour, lack of empathy toward the people in need and exacerbate subjectivisme, which make rich people holding money like greedy fucks while poor people are dying, is a result of the society we're living in. It's not a "human trait" in itself, those kind of pre-made ideas are dangerous bullshit.
The "easy" way would be to supress money, no more question asked ;p [fight club]
Or we could change the nature of money, deciding that money can only be used for trivial reasons - and food, water, shelter, transportation would be free rights.
Or making different moneys
Or we could pay with fucking kisses.
Possibilities are endless but people's minds are frozen, rigid... blocked on an absurd life-time consuming system.
We have one short life, on 70 years we spend approximatively 25 years sleeping, and a huge part of the rest of the time working jobs we don't like in order to keep living the same life, offered the impression of choice and freedom when you chose the color of your sofa or chose which puppet to elect a few years at the head of X country.
We're fuckin slaves, and some of you who claim being "hardworking" people seem to be proud of that enslavement situation.
That makes me sad.
But if this is what you were taught your whole life and never told anything different, wouldn't you be proud to be a hard working American? And don't give me that no I wouldn't bullshit, because if that's what you were brought up learning, you would be quick to defend the hardworking side of things, but think of it this way. Without slaves where would the world be? We would be in a shit hole, because the smart people would never want to do any work because they are "abouve" that.
So even if it makes you sad, the world needs slaves. Even if we have to coat it into phrases like "hardworking". Now do I disrespect those who work hard for their miniscule pay? No I do not, but from what I hear you do, and that sir makes me sick. You disrespecting them is like saying you disrespect slaves. You are no different then any slave owner that has ever lived.
I just got offtopic terribly sorry. To the first thing I highlighted not everyone thinks that is a way to live. A lot of people believe it or not, would enjoy nothing more then just to have a small little house with a wife and kids with nothing more then peace and quiet. (Husband and kids if you are a girl) That's the American dream, have a nice quiet little life with no interruptions so to say that everyone wants to be Billionare's is also very audacious. And also, most people wouldn't want all that money (#richpeopleproblems) because of the higher taxes and because they are afraid they will become grade-A douchebags.
Also I still don't think that people should have their wealth distributed amoung the poor, at least not the way that shrimp provided. Do I think he's wrong in thinking that, yes, I do. But I do understand his point of view, I don't agree with it though, and to the third world countries. Why blame bigger countries like the USA? It's not our faults that the continent of Africa is horrible with managing it's money and people.
But in all reality... I think I might be insane...
Please forgive the idiocy of my last post, I don't even remember posting in this thread; moreover, I don't recall the last time I even posted in discussion whatsoever.
Anyway, I believe I was considerably confused about the topic, but reading some more posts, I have a better understanding. I guess I wasn't thinking clearly about people that are actually poor, but still do what they can to scratch by. I was born into an upper class family, but I'm living in pretty poor conditions compared to previously. I guess that doesn't exactly fit in with Oracle's statistics, but I'm not sure how it all really works. I was thinking more of the standard that Americans try to pump into your head that working hard gets you anything you want, when really, sitting on your ass behind a desk all day sipping coffee and speeding in your Maserati is really what most rich people do. So forget my last post, and read this one.
That being said, I agree with what Oracle and deprav said. You can say that it's pretty obvious, especially in America, that the richest people probably do the least work compared to the poorest. As an example, a firefighter puts his life in risk on various occasions depending on what he does every day. Another example, a fisher in Asia, which isn't probably exactly very stressful, but eh. That fisher may work under companies who distribute fish, and there's more than likely a big CEO of that company who, likely, doesn't care or know the people who are doing his work, he just cares about his millions of dollars that he makes very easily compared to that fisher who probably makes very very little amounts of money and isn't respected at all. I actually have no idea how true this statement is, but it's probable and even if this isn't really how it works, it still would contain truth.
CEOs are said to make a lot of money because they are the head of that company, they are the reason it's able to be where it's at. This is not true. Would that CEO still be able to make a lot of money if all of his workers and people below him... quit? No, so really, it's not the CEO or that big guy really doing much, the expertise of the workers is really the reason that company does well. That's my idea of a company, at least.
Anyway, I believe I was considerably confused about the topic, but reading some more posts, I have a better understanding. I guess I wasn't thinking clearly about people that are actually poor, but still do what they can to scratch by. I was born into an upper class family, but I'm living in pretty poor conditions compared to previously. I guess that doesn't exactly fit in with Oracle's statistics, but I'm not sure how it all really works. I was thinking more of the standard that Americans try to pump into your head that working hard gets you anything you want, when really, sitting on your ass behind a desk all day sipping coffee and speeding in your Maserati is really what most rich people do. So forget my last post, and read this one.
That being said, I agree with what Oracle and deprav said. You can say that it's pretty obvious, especially in America, that the richest people probably do the least work compared to the poorest. As an example, a firefighter puts his life in risk on various occasions depending on what he does every day. Another example, a fisher in Asia, which isn't probably exactly very stressful, but eh. That fisher may work under companies who distribute fish, and there's more than likely a big CEO of that company who, likely, doesn't care or know the people who are doing his work, he just cares about his millions of dollars that he makes very easily compared to that fisher who probably makes very very little amounts of money and isn't respected at all. I actually have no idea how true this statement is, but it's probable and even if this isn't really how it works, it still would contain truth.
CEOs are said to make a lot of money because they are the head of that company, they are the reason it's able to be where it's at. This is not true. Would that CEO still be able to make a lot of money if all of his workers and people below him... quit? No, so really, it's not the CEO or that big guy really doing much, the expertise of the workers is really the reason that company does well. That's my idea of a company, at least.
Last edited by Faint; Mar 23, 2013 at 08:03 AM.
Originally Posted by Faint
CEOs are said to make a lot of money because they are the head of that company, they are the reason it's able to be where it's at. This is not true. Would that CEO still be able to make a lot of money if all of his workers and people below him... quit? No, so really, it's not the CEO or that big guy really doing much, the expertise of the workers is really the reason that company does well. That's my idea of a company, at least.
Coordinating and managing a $5bil company isn't easy. It takes a very specific and uncommon skill set to be able to do so. That's why they're being paid these amounts. You're paid what you're worth and your worth is determined by what you're able to offer. Workers are a dime-a-dozen. Leaders aren't.
Originally Posted by Turtlenecks
Coordinating and managing a $5bil company isn't easy. It takes a very specific and uncommon skill set to be able to do so. That's why they're being paid these amounts. You're paid what you're worth and your worth is determined by what you're able to offer. Workers are a dime-a-dozen. Leaders aren't.
I actually didn't mean for anyone to get the idea that I meant that a CEO does nothing, obviously without a CEO, the company would also not be present. It just seems a bit unpleasing about the amount of money that a CEO gets for having that certain uncommon skill set. It wouldn't surprise me if CEOs from certain companies couldn't handle the amount of work or understand what the regular workers do as well.
Fair point. That they're still getting paid so highly just goes to show how valuable CEOs are to their companies.
To respond to the original OP, I'd say this. If you cap their wealth the rich will take their businesses elsewhere. Say goodbye to your relatively high GDP and current standard of living.
Also, incentive. Why would these people continue to work once they hit this cap?
To respond to the original OP, I'd say this. If you cap their wealth the rich will take their businesses elsewhere. Say goodbye to your relatively high GDP and current standard of living.
Also, incentive. Why would these people continue to work once they hit this cap?
Last edited by Turtlenecks; Mar 23, 2013 at 09:24 AM.
