Toribash
Original Post
Toribash as eSport (e-Sport edition)
what you are about to read here is a concept of making toribash e-sport-ish

these are things that need to be made in order to make toribash a real e-sport discipline.

OVERALL GAMEPLAY

NO DISMEMBERMENT, NO FRACTURES.
replace both by minimal breakpoint and maximum breakpoint. (will be explained later in text)

BALL AXIS GRAB, GRAB THRESHOLD TO BE ABLE TO BREAK IT.

ESTABLISHING CONTROL OVER MODS

mods need to be controlled.
more=/=better. currently we have a shit ton off mods most of them are useless.

step 1. creating white list of mods

only approved mods should be on the white list. if you want to play other mods that have been submited, you need to download it from site. only mods from white list will be avaible after instalation. only mods from white list are allowed for competitions.

these mods must be cathegorised by 2 parameters: class (striking or ippon) and mod group (wushu, aikido irl judo, tk, boxing etc)

1-5 mods per cathegory max.
these are going to be main competative mods which will be utilised mostly.

MODS COMPLEXITY AND METAGAME

now about complexity of these mods.

regular mods with extremely low skill cap should not be utilised. at all.
i'm talking about scrub mods like abd, instagib mods and judo mods, no matter regular or frac.

this is e-sport edition, so fuck you everybody who think it should be gradual or noob friendly.

each mod must have forethought metagame and require alot of skill to meet win conditions.

additional modding abilities are required in order to make these mods to be such. (dq condition, points system, rounds, grab mechanics)

let's start with everybody's favourite - aikido. even tho we should call it judo (hopefully for e-sport edition)

main flaws of thee mod:
1) damage
2) doublegrab

in order to make aikido more competative damage should be disabled. if hamp was any serious about making tb e-sport, he should put some effort.

GRABS RE-DESIGNED

next, double grab. this is the bane of aikido for one single reason. grab mechanics is terrrible and need to be fixed. right now we have solidd line connection grab which is unbreakable and fuck up tori body. ways to deal with it: make grabs to work like ball axis connection, so it would not cause so much force and it will work around natural, so tori bodies would not get fucked up during double grab. and of course we need grab threshold, so grabs may be broken.

additional artificial restrictions may be added after testing.

now, since we don't have damage, we shifted metagame to focus on dq. but to make the game actually more competative we need to give more clear objective and proper scoring, so now we will talk about dq conditions.

SCORING

DQ CONDITIONS

1 point
dq occurs out of dojo # any bodypart
dq occurs inside the dojo # legs or glutes dq

2 points
dq occurs inside the dogo # shoulders, pecs or torso bodyparts dq

4 points
dq occurs inside dojo # head dq

head dq inside dojo will be considered as ippon and score victory. victory achieved by scoring 4 points.

ROUNDS AND WIN CONDITIONS

so basic game will consist of 1-4 rounds maximum. draw = both score 1 point.
no matter what the mod.

no frac or dm.

now what we just described is a gamemod with metagamee shifted towards getting opponent dq by head inside the dojo (pindown/throws) what require way more skill then shit brawling you can see in regular game.

POINTS AND DAMAGE CONDITIONS

now let's talk about points and damage.

for example let's take striking mods like.. boxing or wushu, since damage and points will be pretty much the same.

since these mods are long enough to have atleast several encounters, there is no need in rounds and win conditions by points, so points by damage take place.

each bodypart that can be damaged will have 2 breakpoints

minimal and maximum

let's say you hit any torso part with 5 000 damage of our current score system. in this case you score 1 point.
if you hit torso with less damage like 4 500, you would not score anything.
this is minimal breakpoint.

if you hit torso with more damage than 5 000, for example 5 020, you will still score 1 point.
if you hit torso with damage 15 000, you score 3 points.
this is maximum breakpoint.

fracture and dismemberment should be replaced by minimal breakpoint and maximum breakpoint.

points and damage for head will be different. you can't score by hitting arms or legs.
in this case hitting precise and hitting hard will be rewarded and metagamee will be shifted towards it.

SPECTATOR ABILITY

now, making broadcasting toribash more interesting, since broadcastting is what makee e-sport an e-sport.
yoyo made a tool to draw lines on screen to show whats going on.

additionally there should be an option to high light a joint by click in spectator mode, so it will be a good visual tool for commentators.

ECONOMY

since it's e-sport relise, economy can have a fresh start. fuck free market. the only agent you can trade with = nabi.
want to get some customisation - win tournaments hosted by nabi or donate. or just play and win. no way to transfer tc from one account to another. only staff can do that.

CLANS
clan competions are played as it will be designed, but to make clans leaderboards point system will be utilised.

CLANS RANKING SYSTEM



USER INTERFACE RE-DESIGN

let's face it, toribash look like shit. i mean the game looks like some alpha/beta/proof of concept instead of looking like an actual game.
if nothing can be done about the way it looks, alteast UI re-desing is required.

fuck command lines. it's not intuitive. if you add friends list - add dam button to show it.

description for each setting on mouse hover is required.
Last edited by snake; Aug 26, 2013 at 01:23 PM.
Originally Posted by box View Post
snake, this idea goofy as hell. Mods are a large part of the game because they are community made. One of the selling points of Toribash is it's user-generated content.



snake, this idea is goofy as hell. Ignoring new players is an outright bad idea. Toribash's learning curve is steep enough, forcing them to play the most skill-inducing mods is ludicrous.



snake, this idea is goofy as hell. Again, another selling point (and probably a majority of the community) is the open and free market. Restricting trade to between Nabi and the consumer is simply a ludicrous step backwards.

On a related note, you've suggested half of these before.

I wonder why they haven't been added.

So, you want to get your hands on a devbuild. Things don't work like that. snake, this idea is goofy as hell.

Holy shit, killing the market. snake, this idea is goofy as hell.
Holy shit, making toribash less user-friendly just because mr. important squarepants here wants his tailor-made version to be newb-ridden. snake, this idea is goofy as hell.

"yoyo made a tool to draw lines on screen to show whats going on."
Plans have been made, this might be least goofy of ideas here.
(wonder why)

Ideas are just ideas, by the way. If you really want this added, work hard for it.
Don't just spam this board with suggestion threads and expect us to do the hard work for you.
Oh and, don't make it all about you. Consider the thousands of other players playing this game.
Last edited by Yoyo; Sep 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM.
multiple texture uploader! updated: multiple texture remover!
updated pretty colorlist!

<BobJoelZ> ok ive just rebooted my pc and ive tried to activate my reflex on yahoo internet explorer :/ no luck

<Aracoon> I do not enjoy having anal sex with multiple men
mod control - it was utilised before until mod team stop giving a fuck. you are allowed to create usg, but it needs to be descent to be added. do you have any valid concerns or you here just to argue?

mod complexity
did you read the "e-Sport edition" part?

economy
free market is a terrible thing for any f2p game. and you should not rely on forum part when toribash got greenlit and is going to be put on steam. something you should concider.
Originally Posted by snake View Post
mod control - it was utilised before until mod team stop giving a fuck. you are allowed to create usg, but it needs to be descent to be added. do you have any valid concerns or you here just to argue?

There is no reason to make easy-to-play mods any more difficult or complicated to access for new players. This is as clear and concise as I can be without repetition.

Originally Posted by snake View Post
mod complexity
did you read the "e-Sport edition" part?

Yes, and I think it's goofy. Even if Toribash were to have an "e-sport edition", nothing stops it from being "e-sport" if there are easy-to-play mods in an easy-to-find place.

Perhaps the mod selection screen needs to be revamped, but it does not need to be limited.

Originally Posted by snake View Post
economy
free market is a terrible thing for any f2p game. and you should not rely on forum part when toribash got greenlit and is going to be put on steam. something you should concider.

Why not? The ToriShop is integrated in the forum for a reason.
[23:23:53] <AndChat|700625> Blue eyes ultimate dragon best card
[23:24:29] <AndChat|700625> You know the one with 3 heads
[23:24:39] <~Lightningkid> just like my dick



[11:35:40] <box> Hampa suck
[11:36:21] <hampa> not the first to tell me that today
Right, if we try to overlook the extremist points, there actually was some good content hidden deep in there.

We don't have to restrict mods, just get rid of the ones that doesn't do anything.
Mod categorisation isn't a bad idea either, even though it has been brought up before.

Different score objectives - great - I wouldn't mind using this once in a while.
No-one said it had to replace the current system.
Or maybe he did, but still

We also needed a remake of grabbing, as explained, and hopefully we'll get it.
This idea it really nice. The idea of breakable grabs is great in terms of function and realism. it would give way for players to develop new techniques.

I fully support that idea. I love concepts aim to deepen the gameplay aspects. I think effective combat techniques in toribash are pretty much all defined now. Players have a lot at their disposal but I feel like we're hitting pretty close to the limit of what can be done ingame.

I'm hesitant to agree on you about the economical points of your post though. The free market is a lot of fun for players who are into business, it's like a game in itself. Marketing almost feels like a sub scene. I think the only reason why the market has taken a life of it's own now is mainly because of the reason that the Shop sucks. The shop is a part of toribash that is so stagnant, it really needs work.
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Originally Posted by box View Post

snake, this idea is goofy as hell. Ignoring new players is an outright bad idea. Toribash's learning curve is steep enough, forcing them to play the most skill-inducing mods is ludicrous.

I disagree. I think the learning curve can be pushed a bit further. Most new players get decently well versed with the basics by the time they reach bluebelt.

Players that are into MP are competitive by nature anyway, I think they'll appreciate deeper gameplay conditions even if the learning curve is a bit steep.
Last edited by illv; Sep 6, 2013 at 11:01 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
I turned off the light at the end of the tunnel.
If you really want to make Toribash more competitive, they aren't going to make you a whole new game, but here is how you can get off your ass and do it yourself. First, make your own ladder, on a different website. Where people come in and sign up and fight for positioning in your ladder. When they fight they should have to submit a screen shot of the mod/rules(you make a list of them on the site that everyone fighting on the ladder has to follow) and a replay. They move up and down the ladder based on your own elo system. Lets say you have 3 mods, 3 different elo ratings per mod, one common elo.

Example: Mod 1(1300) elo, Mod 2(1000) base elo, Mod 3(1000) base elo. So there common elo is 1300+1000+1000=3300/3=1100(This is what bases their position on the ladder/their grouping).

So lets say you just use the common, Bronze>Silver>Gold>Plat>Diamond set up. Bronze players can only fight bronze players till their common elo is high enough to challenge silver members. Challenges are sent on the website and can be accepted/denied. After a few months set up a league, where people fight each other in all 3 mods in an assigned order. Top 3 in each group gets prizes. Bronze only fights bronze, silver only fights silver, ect. Diamond players have very good prizes, bronze group has the worst prizes. At the end of the league lets say the top 35 diamond players stay diamond, everyone else gets bumped. Same way for every group but bronze. Inactivity causes elo decay in all 3 mods, failure to show up for an accepted challenge/league match is a forfeit loss. For the league purposes lets say Joe is matched against Nick. They pm each other to figure out what day and time they want, if they can't come to a compromise then they fight on the default day/time which you will assign.

If its popular maybe even Toribash will official acknowledge you as the official ladder. Or you could work your way up to registration fees and cash prizes. That is the first step to getting Tbash to become an esport, so jump on it champ.
Last edited by Jakeway; Sep 8, 2013 at 02:12 AM.
I really enjoy to read calls for "get your ass up and do something" eather it about introducing new features or creating new events. First of all. I'm consumer, and i should recieve fun on my end. It's up to game to provide it. Second, unlike unemployed schoolboys and studs i already have a job to do, and i have no plans to turn my hobby into job (again)
Originally Posted by snake View Post
I really enjoy to read calls for "get your ass up and do something" eather it about introducing new features or creating new events. First of all. I'm consumer, and i should recieve fun on my end. It's up to game to provide it. Second, unlike unemployed schoolboys and studs i already have a job to do, and i have no plans to turn my hobby into job (again)

The trend of game developers backing competitive tournaments and leagues is a very new concept and is not wide spread. League of legends and Dota 2 are the only ones doing it and soon to be csgo(maybe sc2 idk if Blizzard hosts). All other events and leagues for those games and others are third party. Some of your ideas are good, grip break is a very good idea. But as far as esports goes they don't owe you that and it's not going to happen unless one of the toribash esport advocates does it.
Let's get one thing straight here. Anything that's not on topic from this point on will be deleted.
That includes "do it yourself you lazy bum" or "I deserve this and that because I'm a consumer".
It's a suggestion, you should focus on the actual idea instead of getting personal and accusing each other for being stupid or lazy.
Brendan (he who passeth judgement on the frequent changing of signatures): I don't do hentai anymore