HTOTM: FUSION
Originally Posted by DrHax View Post
I sport Odlov's old texture set. To me, it was EXACTLY what I looked for in a set. Incredibly interesting focal points, and nice space to even it all out. Everyone knew who Odlov was, and it was incredibly easy to point the set out from a crowd. I've also preferred to have sets made by you (hanz0) for this very reason.

I don't see any appeal in squeezing unnecessary details out of a 512 by 512 block. I laugh because I'm probably more autistic than I am artistic, but I have to assume being creative with your lines, good shading, and high concept is a better use of your time than grafting out this complicated (or convoluted...) clusterfuck within such small spacing.

In the end, I have more appreciation for sets like Shezcudio's, Odlov's, KamiKo's, War_Hero, etc. with simple, easily identifiable concepts, than.. well I don't want to call out a bad set since that'd be rude but use your best judgement.



Your point is valid, although it's quite funny for me, as You are the person I will always join with very detailed sets. I remember You from 2009 and quite interesting purple, graffiti set.

Still, You just mentioned one of few the best texture sets I've seen- KamiKo's one. Of course, it is not perfect. But everything matches there. It's great concept and piece of good work, and as a whole result is astonishing. Another one is- again- set which hanz0 (as far as I know, if I am wrong- please let me know about it) created for 19LoLek25 (/dl /lp if You don't know it). No idea if anybody remembers it, but it is also great in its simplicity. Even tho I don't like whole crysis-set idea, whole presence is quite awesome.

But, I have a question: how would You classify tribalish sets? I am not talking about pure abstract-tribals, but rather something like Mrama sets from 2008/9 (I know m0s is wearing one, I own one- made for Verax- as well: pictures below). Whole "idea" is always simple, so are shapes, but on the other hand- their amount often makes those sets quite complex. It leads to question- how to define "simplicity" if talking about sets- if it's case of textures elements or rather idea standing behind a whole?

Set that Mrama made for Verax




lol@price. Who cares about it, really. I consider this set above^ as 1kk one, but nobody would ever pay that much it. Powas got over 500k offers for his one, and it is still not the greatest price achievable as simplicity and perfection of his set concept makes it priceless. As it was mentioned before, price is not good criterion at all.
Last edited by Thrandir; Apr 27, 2014 at 12:43 PM.
Awwww no one mentionned my set

My heart goes for simple sets. I mean toribash's 3D design is simplistic, "simple" geometric shapes, so textures should play along with it imo. Plus the fact Toribash is about movement, meaning most of the time you focus on a "non-zoomed" point of view to see your whole body.
Very detailed sets feel like their only purpose is to be detailed, I'll never zoom close enough during a game or a replay to see all the details of a very detailed set, except if I zoom just for the sake of seeing those details.

Just my opinion tho, plus I've seen some really well balanced detailled sets. So I guess it's not an universal truth ;o
No offence to anyone else here but I like xbcz's set the most but I think it only works so well because of black and white void-pure contrast. I suppose the style could work for just one colour with white.
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I totally get what you're saying, Hanzo. I came into toribash a few years ago and I got very excited when I realized that body parts can be textured. I studied design and my skills with mapping during that time was fine. I was really surprised at how low my sets were going for whenever I released them. I put a lot of thought into my work but no one seemed to place any substantial value on the mental labor. It's kinda sad but I started to make more detailed sets just to get a higher appraisal for my work. I've met a couple of texture makers that share this experience.

I'm starting to think that most of the community just doesn't get it, you know?
It's like they see a simple vector set and they automatically bite down on the thought that " well shit I can do that, why should I pay a lot for it?"

Maybe it's an age thing. - or maybe it's because of the fact that people tend to feel better about purchasing textures that are obviously labor intensive detailwise. I'm still not sure to tell you the truth.

I love making both kinds but the lack of love for minimalism is just </3 , especially when you know that you're accomplishing so much with so very little.

oh, and I also don't get why a lot of people dislike symmetry even on sets where it's most effective. " left side and right side are exactly the same, 2k"

seriously, guys.
Last edited by illv; May 2, 2014 at 09:22 PM. Reason: removed unwatermarked image.
" left side and right side are exactly the same, 2k"
This is because you only have to draw half the body pieces then flip to make the other half of the set. If they were both different it would of taken more time to create the set
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Originally Posted by Sissykick View Post
The one thing I don't agree with is the "knowing when to stop" I'm a fan of the quote "A piece of art is never finished, only abandoned" You can always do more.

As an artist I can assure you that that quote doesn't mean "KEEP ADDING STUFF FOREVER". Yes, things can always be refined or adjusted. But unless you're attempting to draw a fractal you shouldn't just keep constantly adding things just because you can.

Originally Posted by Sissykick View Post
" left side and right side are exactly the same, 2k"
This is because you only have to draw half the body pieces then flip to make the other half of the set. If they were both different it would of taken more time to create the set

There you go with the time equals quality/price/effort/skill thing again. And I'll say it again, it doesn't. Asymmetry can be good. Symmetry can be just as good, and I would argue that someone who chooses to use the tools they have to mirror a piece to achieve symmetry is rather more intelligent than someone who entirely remakes the second half and then says it's better simply because they 'spent more time on it'. Sometimes "I spent more time" is just another way of saying "I don't know how to do this efficiently".

Everyone else: Thanks for your input as well. It's reassuring to see feedback from artists who know what I'm on about, especially considering some of the disappointing things you see elsewhere (Where'd that link come from? I didn't put it there!).

"i wish i could do that ken watanabe face where his eyes are really wide" -siku 2015
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Originally Posted by Sissykick View Post
" left side and right side are exactly the same, 2k"
This is because you only have to draw half the body pieces then flip to make the other half of the set. If they were both different it would of taken more time to create the set

Your argument seems to suggest the longer you work on a project, the more it's worth.

So let me pose a situation to you:

What if, you had a chance for hanz0 and I both to work on your next texture set? He would do the left side of your body, and I the right side. hanz0 took 2 weeks to make very highly detailed textures, it looks great, and he may have used mirroring techniques to create symmetry.

I did the other half of your body, and it took me 6 months. I did each sides symmetry by hand, not perfect but of course it isn't. It's relatively chicken scratch because no matter how hard I try :'c I am a shitty shitty artist. Did the price of the set go up or down by having me on the case than having him do it?

I'd say you wouldn't even want the set anymore if I worked on it. You probably would to.

But let's use a less extreme example: hanz0 spent a month making your set. He used perfect mirroring techniques. It's symmetrical. What if instead he took 2 months, tried to be pretty close to symmetrical but he did everything by hand? Would you think hanz0 deserved a lot more money?

It's one thing if what you're looking for is the idiosyncrasies and asymmetry, and that comes with the territory of paying more for getting just that.


----


I'm getting off task. My point is- I'd pay a hell of a lot more for a replica of the Mona Lisa made within 45 seconds than anything my brother can draw in a few hours. Quality isn't necessarily increased by time, and doing things manually can low the quality of something. You should pay people as much as the art is worth to you based off how awesome the set looks in your opinion. How much that is from person to person is different. I wouldn't even spend 50k on a FlyingMonk set because his "style" annoys the shit out of me. I DID spend a million TC back when that was unheard of for hanz0 to make me a set.
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Originally Posted by hanz0 View Post
As an artist I can assure you that that quote doesn't mean "KEEP ADDING STUFF FOREVER".

i lold, theres always room for more shading and details!


Originally Posted by hanz0 View Post
There you go with the time equals quality/price/effort/skill thing again. And I'll say it again, it doesn't. Asymmetry can be good. Symmetry can be just as good, and I would argue that someone who chooses to use the tools they have to mirror a piece to achieve symmetry is rather more intelligent than someone who entirely remakes the second half and then says it's better simply because they 'spent more time on it'. Sometimes "I spent more time" is just another way of saying "I don't know how to do this efficiently".

Actually, I think he was agreeing with you.
read his statement again

Originally Posted by DrHax View Post
Your argument seems to suggest the longer you work on a project, the more it's worth.

as I said to hanz0, re-read his statement.
but i am a firm believer that time/effort should be a factor when the price is concerned, not the major factor, the end result should always be the biggest one, but it should be a factor nontheless.
otherwise the value difference between simple and detailed would break the market even more.
-=Art is never finished, only abandoned=-
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post
i lold, theres always room for more shading and details!

The fact that there is room for them doesn't always mean that you should be adding details, though.

Originally Posted by BenDover View Post
Actually, I think he was agreeing with you.
read his statement again

Unless my literacy level temporarily dropped several grades (Which is entirely possible, I posted that right before I went to bed) I'm pretty sure of my interpretation. He believes that mirrored/symmetrical textures are worth less because they took less time. I do not.

"i wish i could do that ken watanabe face where his eyes are really wide" -siku 2015
DONSELUKE, MASTER OF LAWSUIT
if you love america please sign this petition
B&B&B&
you guys act as if a detailed artist is just some poor excuse of an artist just adding forever. Erasers exist. I never said thats what the quote was implying, you assumed i was implying such, much like I just assumed what your image of a detailed a artist is. If an awesome simplistic artist did two texture sets, one with flipped images, one without, the one without took longer because he spent the same amount of time on each picture he created, which would he charge more for if he liked the products he produced equally? Any artist puts the time AND effort spent into the estimation of its value. Time is money
Last edited by Sissykick; May 1, 2014 at 07:27 PM.
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