Originally Posted by ynvaser
I don't really need to do any of that to form an opinion based on second-hand information. I'm actually quite interested in the topic, since the way your country works affects the whole world if you haven't noticed yet.
I have actually heard of that system before, and said what I said based on that information.
Let me recap: if anyone wants a brighter future for themselves, they have to grab a rifle and go shoot people? Seems like jolly good fun, and something a peace-loving liberal state would do.
Ofc it's not mandatory military service. You'll just have to do it if you don't want to make minimum wage for the rest of your life.
Except you don't have to join the military to make more than minimum wage. Out of my groups of friends in high school and the two universities I've joined, only 2 have gone to the military at any point in time, usually after going and graduating from university.
All of us are doing pretty well so far, definitely making more than minimum wage. You yourself said your argument is all based on second hand information. That in itself makes your argument a flawed argument.
Read the Market Rules
In #Support: [19:53] <@firebolty> StileCheat: Did you try this?: would you lick onima's pussy clean for 10,000 dollars
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In #Support: [19:53] <@firebolty> StileCheat: Did you try this?: would you lick onima's pussy clean for 10,000 dollars
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So if we could establish a few facts:
1. Ferguson is a special case with a special location and special circumstances.
2. You don't know what's really going on unless you live in the U.S.
3. Ynvaser is talking out of his ass for attention.
Now that these three points have been established, why exactly is this country becoming a military state?
The obvious answer, to anyone who actually lives in America, is it isn't.
And who knows better than the citizens, right?
So in general, yes the police are authorized to use force. Yes they are allowed to use military grade hardware.
However: They cannot just barge into a home. They cannot just shoot a woman for not wearing a headress. A police officer cannot fire upon a suspect unless threatened directly. And somebody cannot be persecuted based on ideals, or as some cracker-jack literary scholar said on this thread, with referenceto a work of fiction, 1984, ideas.
If you would like to actually look up what a military state is, well by god! I've done it for you!
Link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Define+Military+State
So if we could stop pissing and moaning about a police officer doing their job, or someone working 9-5 not making a million dollars a year, that would be awesome.
Because truth is, this is America. And when we screw shit up we do it well, and we fess up to it.
1. Ferguson is a special case with a special location and special circumstances.
2. You don't know what's really going on unless you live in the U.S.
3. Ynvaser is talking out of his ass for attention.
Now that these three points have been established, why exactly is this country becoming a military state?
The obvious answer, to anyone who actually lives in America, is it isn't.
And who knows better than the citizens, right?
So in general, yes the police are authorized to use force. Yes they are allowed to use military grade hardware.
However: They cannot just barge into a home. They cannot just shoot a woman for not wearing a headress. A police officer cannot fire upon a suspect unless threatened directly. And somebody cannot be persecuted based on ideals, or as some cracker-jack literary scholar said on this thread, with referenceto a work of fiction, 1984, ideas.
If you would like to actually look up what a military state is, well by god! I've done it for you!
Link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Define+Military+State
So if we could stop pissing and moaning about a police officer doing their job, or someone working 9-5 not making a million dollars a year, that would be awesome.
Because truth is, this is America. And when we screw shit up we do it well, and we fess up to it.
goodbye cruel world
Originally Posted by ynvaser
Democracy is a fallacy in practice, under most systems in effect today.
It's just there so the peons can feel like they have a real choice. You vote for asshole A or asshole B and expect things to change. When was the last time you got asked about major questions regarding domestic and foreign policy?
"Hey, dipshits, is it okay if we bomb these innocent civilians in these resource-rich countries?"
I'm sure noone with a hint of humanity would vote yes.
But then of course, the everyman in the US is raised like cattle. You don't need a proper education, all you have to do is grab a rifle and head out on deployment. You are "protecting" your country afterall, noone cares about books and all that crap, amirite?
USA is not a democracy and the system you just described is not a democracy.
Learn your shit please.
Spoiler: USA is a constitutional republic
Originally Posted by Note
1. Ferguson is a special case with a special location and special circumstances.
2. You don't know what's really going on unless you live in the U.S.
Neither of these things are true.
Firstly Ferguson is not a special case, it's a product of widespread attitudes that could be seen even back in 1992. If you want to talk about Ferguson, go to the Ferguson thread. It's not a unique one time situation, it's something that could easily happen almost anywhere in the US.
Living in the US doesn't give you access to special knowledge about what's going on elsewhere in the country, it does however mean your information is heavily filtered and censored... Take from that what you want.
Originally Posted by Note
And who knows better than the citizens, right?
This seems a little absurd, people inside the US will think their situation is normal when anyone outside can see it most certainly is not.
Originally Posted by Note
So in general, yes the police are authorized to use force. Yes they are allowed to use military grade hardware.
However: They cannot just barge into a home. They cannot just shoot a woman for not wearing a headress. A police officer cannot fire upon a suspect unless threatened directly. And somebody cannot be persecuted based on ideals, or as some cracker-jack literary scholar said on this thread, with referenceto a work of fiction, 1984, ideas.
In other countries it is exceedingly rare for a policeman to fire a shot, and even rarer for it to become a big political issue. In the US this seems to happen a few times a year, with many smaller shootings in between.
I don't think you understand just how far away the US is from the global norm.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
USA is not a democracy and the system you just described is not a democracy.
Learn your shit please.
Spoiler: USA is a constitutional republic
Republics are described as democratic in nature. The rhetoric of your politicians are all based on the idea of democracy. You elect your politicians by voting ffs, you only get to vote in a meaningful way in a democratic system.
You go and learn your shit.
Originally Posted by Note
So if we could establish a few facts:
3. Ynvaser is talking out of his ass for attention.
I'm here because I'm interested in the topic, and have a view on the whole thing from an outside perspective. I live under a different system, so I can actually relate what I'm hearing about your country to something else.
So what I was trying to say, before you all decided that I'm an idiot, is that a society which is more hawk-minded can only be kept in check with a stronger police force.
A lot of stuff the US police is authorized to do would be illegal in Europe, but then again, most European countries forbid citizens from carrying firearms in general.
What is interesting, though, is that the US has the apparatus to become a police state. It has a strong police force (the link is just to show you they don't fuck around when suspicion arises) and ways to perform surveillance on it's own citizens on a wide scale. You even have black sites (gitmo for example) where you can put anyone labeled a terrorist.
I'm actually optimistic and I don't think this whole system is abused on an institutionalized level, but it actually could be. It wouldn't take a lot of work since the infrastructure is already there.
Last edited by ynvaser; Sep 19, 2014 at 01:57 PM.
Originally Posted by ynvaser
Republics are described as democratic in nature. The rhetoric of your politicians are all based on the idea of democracy. You elect your politicians by voting ffs, you only get to vote in a meaningful way in a democratic system.
You go and learn your shit.
Having a democratic aspect does not make something a democracy.
Merely voting does not make something a democracy. There are many aspects of USA that are not democratic (the most obvious of which is that the population are not involved decisions made by the government).
That's like saying USSR was communist because it had communist aspects (there were workers guys!!!).
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
