Toribash
Sometimes, equality can come down to a mental state. Nobody can be equal if everybody thinks differently. Each and every perspective would always take something about a person into different importance. One person may really care about what shoes your wearing and one person might not even look at your shoes. Who ever has power will take thier values into account and not others. Also, Genders were created and not predetermined. People use Genders as a source of organzation. Technically, everybody is the same but phiscally they are different. Equality is and will never be a real thing. Nobody can be the same even if it means a little difference between somebodys heart beat. We created Equality as a goal... that humans can never reach.
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"Day is probably masturbating to Osu"- Hydra 2k15
I think the main reason equality is difficult is that there has to be someone to equalise and re-equalise continuously otherwise greed can defeat any state of equality. Sure giving to charity and not making presumptuous decisions about who to favour will help equality but very few people will favour creating equality over their own well being. I believe this is why no true communist nation has ever existed (as far as I am aware the stage where a leader is no longer required and everyone agrees to share has not yet been reached), there will always be people taking more than they deserve and then the people who do care about equality and do not take things for theirselves are left with less. unless there is a leader who is able to stop that from happening then the world resorts back into a free for all unequal mess, and for a leader to stop it they must have more power than others, as well as enforcers who will have different powers to those they enforce, and although corruption is avoidable and fair justice is a possibility, it still requires inequality.
Good morning sweet princess
Originally Posted by Smogard49 View Post
So if a woman gets hospitalised and needs a tampon in the US and then gets a bill for that, whilst the man getting hospitalised for the exact same reason does not need one, is that equality?

I don't even know how to respond to that.

Originally Posted by Smogard49 View Post
Would you then argue that "gender is socially constructed"? Don't even try.

You don't know what gender is, so yeah, I won't try anymore.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
FYI Ele, "gender" is synonymous with "sex" in everyday conversation. It's pretty clear that you are using it to refer only to social and cultural factors, but it's important to mention because Smogard was using it to refer to biology.

This isn't everyday conversation, it's a discussion board where people are supposed to know what they're talking about. My mistake. I assumed a standard of knowledge beyond his capacity. I don't think the onus is on me to dumb down my points - it's up to him to know what he's talking about.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
This isn't everyday conversation, it's a discussion board where people are supposed to know what they're talking about. My mistake. I assumed a standard of knowledge beyond his capacity. I don't think the onus is on me to dumb down my points - it's up to him to know what he's talking about.

Unless someone has been following feminism/SJW business I doubt they would even realize that gender can refer to something other than biology.

Not everyone in this board is an expert, and they don't have to be. Just explain it to the guy.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
My mistake. I assumed a standard of knowledge beyond his capacity. I don't think the onus is on me to dumb down my points - it's up to him to know what he's talking about.

It is your job to make it clear to him what you mean in your post. I agree with your arguments and your judgement of him but him misunderstanding you doesn't develop this discussion any further or prove anything about his actual arguments, illogical though some of them might be.
Good morning sweet princess
Originally Posted by Smogard49 View Post
Should people be treated differently due to their genders, as our biological code does lead us to have different needs? And so the list goes on...

Is it not obvious that I used gender as a synonym to sex here?

Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Sociologists recognize that gender is socially constructed, and thus, definitions of gender vary from society to society.

Sociologists recognise that most parts of the word gender is socially constructed, but I doubt they'd argue that for the sex of a person.

Originally Posted by Smogard49 View Post
So if a woman gets hospitalised and needs a tampon in the US and then gets a bill for that, whilst the man getting hospitalised for the exact same reason does not need one, is that equality?

Would you then argue that "gender is socially constructed"? Don't even try.

Once again I used it as a synonym.

Originally Posted by Ele View Post
You don't know what gender is, so yeah, I won't try anymore.

Say what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender;
bla bla bla May include sex bla bla bla (1st paragraph).

It's pretty damn obvious that I used gender as a synonym to sex as it can be used that way. Se my first response in this thread. So please enlighten me how I used the word gender wrong anywhere within my posts, when I even highlighted that I were using it as a reference to sex in my post.

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
Unless someone has been following feminism/SJW business I doubt they would even realize that gender can refer to something other than biology.

Not everyone in this board is an expert, and they don't have to be. Just explain it to the guy.

FYI; if he read my post he'd understand what I meant by gender. Hence my response.
// rant
Last edited by Smogard49; Nov 2, 2014 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Fixed some foul language.
Now doing recoloring for people not in the clan as-well, PM for more info!
PROUD OWNER OF THORN'S GOOD ENOUGH WRITER AWARD!
C) Personal digs between users will not be tolerated. This includes but is not limited to insulting comments, personally directed hate, and unnecessary rhetorical remarks. That being said, rhetoric may slide if it services a point rather than belittle the opposite party in the discussion. If the discussion is getting too heated step back, take a deep breath and make sure you are fully calm before posting a reply. Respect the points made by other users in the same manner you would expect yours to be respected.

And this is starting to get a bit off topic. Unless you are going to post with relative information. Don't.
Smog, no need to swear in your post. (Post edit op).

I will probably get infracted for 'backseat moderating' but I just wanted to remind you guys of the rules.
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pink
Originally Posted by Kradel View Post
And this is starting to get a bit off topic. Unless you are going to post with relative information. Don't.
Smog, no need to swear in your post. (Post edit op).

I will probably get infracted for 'backseat moderating' but I just wanted to remind you guys of the rules.

It is relevant to the discussion that this point does not slip away; If we cannot discuss gender equality to its full extent, and within this not omitting sex equality, many arguments fall short due to a definition that no-one within this thread has set up.

Rebuttal to arguments within this field also gets a'lot easier as seen above. As to that I added the very specific response that doesn't add to the discussion itself more than pointing out that the remark I did with my 1st post here still stands even as Ele tries to wave it away by misrepresenting it.
Now doing recoloring for people not in the clan as-well, PM for more info!
PROUD OWNER OF THORN'S GOOD ENOUGH WRITER AWARD!
Originally Posted by Smogard49 View Post
FYI; if he read my post he'd understand what I meant by gender. Hence my response.
// rant

I agree, but in the SJW sphere 'gender' is used exclusively to refer to cultural and societal factors and is considered distinct from 'sex'.

Discussing semantics any further is pointless, so let's go with 'gender' referring to cultural and societal, and 'sex' being biology. That should increase clarity I hope.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
I agree, but in the SJW sphere 'gender' is used exclusively to refer to cultural and societal factors and is considered distinct from 'sex'.

I'm insulted. You really don't need to be a SJW to know the difference. School kids learn this stuff nowadays. You only need to be in the high-school educated sphere. You hardly need to be an expert (like you posited earlier).

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
Discussing semantics any further is pointless, so let's go with 'gender' referring to cultural and societal, and 'sex' being biology.

Agreed.

I'll address your point, Smogard (pretending that you meant sex when you said gender).

"Should people be treated differently due to their genders, as our biological code does lead us to have different needs?"

On the basis of sex, people should receive fair (not literally equal) treatment and should not be discriminated against. Discrimination involves prejudice. Giving women tampons in hospitals is not an example of inequality. That's an incredibly ridiculous and ignorant position to take. It's fair treatment and discriminates against no one.