Originally Posted by cocacobra

Well there we go now we are back to what my post asked which was what kind of free will we are talking about and it seems now we are on the product of your environment kind of free will.

Product of your environment I view is a majority thing, and really depends on the person. First things first people are different and will react to the same things differently, and my main point is that there are many exceptions to the product of your environment. I personally know a few people who grew up in very very very shitty homes but now attend college and instead of letting their terrible upbringing consume them they just distanced themselves from it and used as an example of what not to do.

Originally Posted by Ele

Mhm. It's not just genetics upbringing that determines the decision making though, it's also their environment + experiences. Easy way to think of it is nature+nurture. Going back to Hitler, if you took his place, instead of actually being him, then history would've turned out differently. If you were Hitler, then it would remain the same.

Originally Posted by Ele

If you grew up as Hitler, the argument goes that you would make all the same decisions that he did. That there was never any other way for things to play out other than how they happened is what they mean by 'free will doesn't exist'.

Originally Posted by Ezeth

well yes I agree with ele

In order for someone to predict the exact decisions of a human being with 100% precision you would have to know about every particle in the entire universe, because your brain alone isn't the only thing that will affect your judgement, everything you touch, look at and feel will be added to your personal experiences, and everything you touch, look at and feel will already be affected by other things already (the butterfly effect)

So therefore your mind can also change at any time depending on what you observe, feel or experience, but this new "input" has to override the reasoning you already have acquired in order for it to change your actions, if the action is black and white, do or don't, will or will not.

If you would only share the experiences of Hitler not the genes you would not do the exact same things he did. You might have been worse or better than Hitler.

Humanity is on the verge of monumental discovery, about ourselves and the universe we inhabit. Science has progressed to a time, now, that the elemental aspects of matter do not behave in a predictable manner. Science has encountered the mystical, the indefinable.
Max Planck (1858-1947), noteworthy physicist said -

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter."