Can't you take a hint? My first reply was about respecting smokers' manners. You act as if you're better than them.

You, calling a random drinker an idiot. Who's more mature now?

I act as if I made better choices than they did, which I have, since I'm not addicted to alcohol or drugs.

Furthermore, me calling drinkers idiots is my opinion, it has nothing to do with maturity. I could say that all black people are funny, but that's my opinion, it doesn't make me any more or less mature based upon my answer.

Just because they're people doesn't mean we can give them the benefit of the doubt. Just like we don't give terrorists the benefit of the doubt even though they're humans as well.

Oh, so you're telling us our opinions make us immature and your opinions don't make you immature. You make PERFECT sense man.

Some presidents are alcoholics. Yeah, you made better decisions than them bro.

When did I say your opinions made you immature? I think your opinions are wrong, but they're a perfectly valid and mature argument. Just because I believe in my opinion does not mean that I think yours is immature, just incorrect.

Yes, Ulysses S. Grant, Andrew Johnson and Franklin Pierce were noted alcoholics, but no modern president (except Truman and Harding if you want to stretch back that far) has been an alcoholic, or, someone who is addicted to alcohol. I won't refute that fact, but I'm not going to acknowledge your accusation that I think I made better decisions that US presidents because your statement is completely absurd and blown way out of proportion.

But, think of everyone else who have died because of their addiction to alcohol. Drunk drivers kill themselves and other people because of their stupidity and their bad choices. Smokers die of cancer and give cancer through second hand because of their stupidity and their bad choices. How can you possibly say that these schmucks have made better decisions than anyone who hasn't done drugs or alcohol?

Because I don't know their whole story and have no right to call them idiots. All our opinions about you are as accurate as it is. You call alcoholics idiots just because they drink? That's the stupidest reason to call someone an idiot. With all the facts you give you just make your self look more judgemental. And I thought you were full of logic.

And here I thought we were a bunch of open-minded individuals. Kinda disappointed right now.

Silent, your error here is that your statements make it seem like you believe everyone who smokes and/or drinks is a fucking idiot. My first response to you dealt with that. And it's not true. Like I said before, I believe that anyone who drinks and doesn't hurt/kill anyone in the process should be allowed to do so. Why would I assume they are idiots right off the bat? Thinking in stereotypes will get you nowhere, you might as well assume that every American is stupid(a stereotype), every Arab is a terrorist(a stereotype) and that everyone from the Balkans is a lowly criminal peasant(another stereotype). Lumping every person who partakes in the same activity into one category is a huge flaw in logic and makes you seem narrow-minded, whether you want to accept it or not.

About you having made better choices than the people who smoke and drink. You haven't made better choices, you've made different choices. By choosing not to ever participate in such activities you've limited your personal experience of them immensely, the same way that I did. But you can't go telling a person who smokes that all it takes is willpower, that's pretty much obvious. However, you've never been addicted to nicotine. You've never had to overcome that particular addiction. You just assume that in the eventuality that you ever were addicted to it, you would have enough willpower to be able to quit it. You don't know that, you assume it. That shows that you have a high opinion of yourself and you believe you would fare better than the people who failed to quit it. Now there's nothing wrong with that, unless you start lecturing other people on how they're weak based solely on your assumed potential supremacy over them.


You speak as if you're an authority on the subject. You're not. You've never quit smoking. You've avoided starting it. I find it hard to believe that you don't think anyone who has ever wanted to quit smoking has been able to devise a similar or better plan and tried to follow it through.


Which is exactly what you're doing. Only your attack is more aimed at TRichard, while maintaining an air of supremacy. In this section you put a lot of words in his mouth, which I'm fairly sure he'd never say. He never denied that people have been able to quit smoking, he just stated that he hasn't been able to so far. I doubt you're more experienced than him in the art of quitting smoking. But this makes it seem like you think you are.


To my knowledge Richard never denied that these kinds of things happen in real-life too. However, those are extreme cases. If these things happened to the majority of drinkers, well ... we'd have very little drinkers alive, wouldn't we? He's not saying you're ignorant. He's merely remarking that speaking about things you have very little actual experience about doesn't make you seem all that credible. You assume that he is degrading himself, and you assume that he has "drug buddies" that do the same. Now you don't know how much he drinks, you don't know how much he smokes, and you don't know what kind of people he keeps as company. So you're basically insulting him solely based on preconceived notions. In no way is this rational.



I've been free-climbing for 5-6 years. That's climbing without any safety gear at all on places where a fall often means instant death. Judging by what you've said, that would make me an idiot, since I'm basically risking my life for nothing that you can understand. Because you're different than I am, and unless you have a way to experience it through my eyes it wouldn't mean the same to you. Now this hobby of mine is not detrimental to anyone, so maybe you would disregard it's relative insanity and apparent purposelessness. If everything you don't understand is immediately classified as idiotic, you can't expect anyone to take your reasoning seriously.


You've grouped smokers and drinkers into the same bag of "addicts" and you've called them all weak-willed idiots. Hardly the highest level of maturity.


You haven't made better choices than anyone who's drinking or smoking habits haven't had negative consequences on anyone but him/herself. I would agree with you that ultimately I feel it's better to not drink and/or smoke. But that's just how I feel. Attempting to use facts to somehow prove your opinion "right" while disregarding everything that can be used against it is not the way to go. The facts are these - not all drinkers/smokers are idiots. And you've called them just that.



This is kinda useless, no? Assuming presidents are better than the average person doesn't make much sense. They just have or have had power at one point in time. And America has had it's fair share or moronic presidents. Just like many other countries.


@Silent: You know I respect you. I respect everyone in this clan. However, what was a civil discussion in the beginning started turning into a flame war of you vs everyone else. Your views are a bit too extreme(so are mine), but you can't expect everyone to share them. Nor is anyone obliged to agree with you, especially when they don't feel your arguments are objective enough to be taken seriously. It seems you would ban drinking or smoking altogether. Does anyone seriously follow you around in a drunken stupor or with the sole purpose of blowing smoke in your face? Does anyone force you to go to bars or nightclubs? I doubt it. Those are choices you can make. If anyone doesn't want to get in a car where the driver is drunk, I hardly think he/she is capable of forcing them.

Two things, however:
1)If parents constantly smoke around their children, that is an idiotic thing to do. Forcing your kid to breathe polluted air is moronic. When the child is old enough to choose, it can choose whether or not to be around people who smoke.

2)If gets into an accident and kills people while DUI, the punishment should be severe. I'm talking life imprisonment or worse. Everyone should be forced to take responsibilities for their actions, regardless of their mental state at the time. If I were to harm a stranger because I was angry at something that happened to me(completely unrelated to him/her, my anger wouldn't justify my actions and I should accept full responsibility.

I knew my argument was childish xD

Anyways, thanks for pointing out most of my points LT

Oh yeah, No hard feelings aryt, Silent? xD I was just disappointed on how you backed your arguments.

I think it's time for a change in topic...What's your favorite/ideal holiday place and why?

Of course, some time on the computer would be necessary, so preferably somewhere with Wifi connection.
I've never seen snow, so my dream is to get a plane ticket to somewhere with some really great snow (not meaning it snows a lot, but it snows just the right amount).

I've always dreamed about living in a warm, cozy cabin up in the mountains.
Or atleast celebrating christmas there.
I love snow, if there's no snow there's not winter, to me.