Toribash
Whether they were defending themselves, I cannot help but think that deadly force was definitely NOT necessary. Tear gas and other non-lethal yet incapacitating devices would have been much more appropriate. I can't help but think that this was another show of power.
Welcome to an Infernity of pain
Proud VorteXian
US national shot on Mavi Mamara.

Four bullets to the head and one to the chest. That is an execution, plain and simple. You do not go for headshots in self defense. All soldiers are trained to aim at centre mass.
infamous
I have no sympathy for people who go along with activists trying to deliver weapons to the Hamas controlled areas of the Gaza Strip. If you don't want to get shot, don't go on a boat trip with terrorists.
Originally Posted by rafufu View Post
I have no sympathy for people who go along with activists trying to deliver weapons to the Hamas controlled areas of the Gaza Strip. If you don't want to get shot, don't go on a boat trip with terrorists.

...
infamous
Originally Posted by rafufu View Post
I have no sympathy for people who go along with activists trying to deliver weapons to the Hamas controlled areas of the Gaza Strip. If you don't want to get shot, don't go on a boat trip with terrorists.

OK, I'm going to try to answer this again. You just literally made me restructure my stance on participating in debates. So I'm going to crush you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...utopsy-results

Now these are the results of the autopsies carried out by Israel. A nineteen year old Turkish-American was shot twice in the left leg, once in the chest, once in the right side of his nose and four times in the back of his head. Every single shot was from less than 45cm away. I should not have to explain this to anyone, ever. Two 9mm bullets in the leg are more than enough to severely incapacitate a nineteen year old of medium build. Putting one in his nose, one in his chest and four in the back of his head is absolutely one of three things: an execution, possibly with wanton torture beforehand. Or it means that the man was surrounded by Israeli commandos and was shot at point blank range from every angle. Or one/several of the commando/s simply executed the man with a shot to the skull, then proceeded to shoot up the body, wasting ammunition in what was described by the Israeli goverment as basically a melee. This is where things get interesting. None of those situations could possibly be described as self-defense, which is exactly what the Israeli government describes it as. If the crowd armed with kitchen knives and metal poles was that deadly, the commandos should not have had time to destroy a teenager with seven bullets all fired from less than 45cm away. It is an absolutely disgusting way to kill a fellow human being, much less one on board a vessel stocked with aid supplies and building materials.
infamous
Don't you know? The Commando receives a medal for that.

Israeli commando who shot passengers in aid convoy in line for medal !
Six of the nine passengers killed in an Israeli raid on an aid convoy bound for Gaza were shot by a single Israeli commando, who is being considered for a medal of valour for saving his injured comrades as passengers attacked them with clubs, knives and even guns they had taken from downed Navy Seals.

Fresh details of the controversial raid, which has led to accusations of “piracy” and “state terrorism” being levelled against Israel, and which wrecked its strategic partnership with Turkey, emerged yesterday. There were reports that passengers who attacked the Israeli boarding party had been dragging three captured commandos into the hold of the ship when the shooting broke out.

And a British passenger who witnessed the deadly pre-dawn encounter in international waters said that some of the more peaceful activists on board had tried to protect captured Israeli soldiers being set upon by a hardcore of passengers, most of them believed to be Turks linked to an Islamic charity accused by Israel of having links to extremists.

The Israeli commando who killed six of the passengers of Mavi Marmara, the Turkish ferry owned by the IHH charity, said that he had been the last of 15 soldiers to rappel down the rope from an overhead helicopter on to the decks of the ship, which he described as “a battlefield”.

Identified for security reasons only as Staff Sergeant S, he said that contrary to initial Israeli Army reports, the shooting had started within minutes as he and his comrades were set upon by a “mob of mercenaries”.

As he landed on the ship’s top deck, he said he saw three of his superior officers who had landed ahead of him lying wounded, one with a bullet wound to the stomach, another shot in the knee and the third beaten unconscious.

Taking charge, he formed his men in a perimeter around the wounded, pulled his 9mm Glock pistol and opened fire on passengers he accused of shooting at the boarding party with guns taken off the first soldiers, who had been overwhelmed as they landed one by one.

“When I hit the deck, I was immediately attacked by people with bats, metal pipes and axes,” the sergeant recalled. “These were without a doubt terrorists. I could see the murderous rage in their eyes and that they were coming to kill us.”

He said he saw one of the passengers holding a seized pistol to another Israeli commando’s head.

His accusation that his assailants were mercenaries was based on the large amounts of cash found on a number of the detained and killed passengers, although other officials have suggested the money was destined to be given to Hamas in Gaza if the convoy succeeded in breaking the Israeli naval blockade.

New footage released by Israel, and apparently filmed by activists before the boarding had started before dawn on Monday, showed an Israeli assault craft full of helmeted commandos pull alongside the Mavi Marmara, where men waving metal pipes and a chain leant overboard to ward them off.

Others were emptying fire hoses at the Israeli boat below, while a stun grenade was dropped into the vessel, exploding among the soldiers.

Some Israeli officials have accused the Turks who attacked them of links to terrorist groups, although it was unclear why, in that case, the soldiers of Flotilla 13, the elite Navy Seals unit involved in the operation, were briefed only to expect peaceful resistance.

The question also remained as to why the passengers, if they were indeed terrorists, did not use deadlier weapons against the approaching naval launches and helicopters hovering overhead.

Alexandra Lort-Phillips, 37, an activist from Hackney, was on the Mavi Marmara when it was stormed and described seeing an Israeli soldier taken down into the stairwell below the deck where the soldiers landed.

“I went down the stairwell and there was a massive crowd of people and lots of shouting,” she said, after being deported to Istanbul.

“They had got a soldier who had boarded the ship from the roof. There was a sense of ‘My god, we’ve got an Israeli soldier’. I don’t think we really knew what we were going to do.”

“I saw a gun being taken. His gunbelt was removed and someone, I don’t know who, ran past me with the weapon and disappeared. They could have shot him but didn’t.” She said around 25 people were gathered around the soldier, who was held by his legs and stripped to his underwear as he was restrained.

“The women who were there were shouting ‘Don’t hurt him’.” Ms Lort-Phillips denied he was beaten, but said: “There were obviously some guys there who were extremely agitated by the situation. It is like you’d expect when there’s a fight between men.” As Israel desperately tried to limit the damage caused by the bloodbath on the high seas, the organisers of the aid flotilla said another boat was due to challenge the blockade and make for Gaza at the weekend.

The Rachel Corrie, an Irish-flagged ship, is named after a young American peace activist who was crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer in 2003 while trying to prevent the army from demolishing a Palestinian home in Gaza. Organisers said it was steaming straight for Gaza with Mairead Maguire, winner of an Irish Nobel Peace Prize, on board.

This is genocide. "Hamas" was just an alibi so they can claim Palestine and attack Muslims around it.
The Israeli Commandos had every right to do what they did. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area, and any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law.

They were also quite right to have suspicions about the cargo. As the Vice President of the USA put it: "Look, you can argue whether Israel should have dropped people onto that ship or not and the – but the truth of the matter is, Israel has a right to know – they're at war with Hamas – has a right to know whether or not arms are being smuggled in."

The Aid was also organised by a group called Free Gaza. This is an umbrella group of the IHH, which is closely linked to Hamas and has been known to voice it's approval of Suicide bombing.

The following is from The Israel Project:

1. A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.

4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.

5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.

6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.

7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.

8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.

9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.

10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.

11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.

12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.