Originally Posted by EmpireSlay

Yes, considering that the law hasn't been passed yet.

Originally Posted by EmpireSlay

umm..
If children are raised in a gay environment they are more likely to turn gay.You have no idea how much children are influenced by their environment. Children from a parent that smokes is very likely to smoke. The real question should be: Whats wrong with a homosexual son, and that is what we are debating: "what is your stand on gay people".

Originally Posted by RayA75

I find it alarming that no one has answered this question yet:

What is intrinsically wrong with being a homosexual?

Originally Posted by Acesonnall

You're asking a question that already assumes that people know that it's a biological factor when there's evidence that it's not.

Originally Posted by sireal

@RayA75: Hygiene, mostly.

But seriously, nothing is wrong with being gay. I mean, culturally it's frowned upon in some places, mostly due to religious persecution,

but ignoring culture issues (getting jumped, homophobic graffiti, exclusion etc),

there is nothing wrong with being gay. Anyone that argues that there is something bad about it is just plain old wrong.

Originally Posted by RayA75

Is there anything intrinsically immoral about homosexuality?

Originally Posted by Oracle

It's an outdated immorality, but it's highly probably that initially homosexuality was perceived immoral because it denies the birth of a child. Way back when, children were almost a commodity of sorts, as children rarely survived past their teens. Heck, the average life expectancy at some times was only the mid 20s. As such, child birth, and a lot of it at that, was essential for communities to survive. It could be inferred that a homosexual relationship was perceived as selfish, as it was love that only benefited the people involved and not the community as a whole.

However, most of that logic is based around medieval era times, which leaves a huge time gap between when the Bible was written, when life expectancy was much higher, which doesn't explain why back then it was considered immoral. While child birth was still dangerous for both the mother and the child, children had a higher chance to survive to adulthood, so it wasn't necessary to proliferate like rabbits. I can only see theological reasoning for why it would be perceived as immoral, pleasures of the flesh and all.

Originally Posted by Meamme0

I guess one argument why it would be wrong is that it makes no sense evolutionary.

Originally Posted by floop78

It isn't really fair to compare something as innocent as wanting choosing who you love to the many different subjects of 'crime'. Crime in a sense is a very broad term extending from anything that the state/country/providence decides is just generally "bad thing" From misdemeanors such as jaywalking, to the high level crimes such as murder. How can we compare love to murder?

It's also unfair to blame gays for the creation of AIDS. It's generally been kept around as a 'gay disease' because homophobes refusing to learn otherwise. Take a look at a couple of these articles written by MD Alan Cantwell

HomoPhobs
Origin of AIDS

Along with many other articles that explain and procure evidence that aids was a result of "hepatitis B vaccine experiments (1978-1981) using gay men as guinea pigs." You say that you aren't educated on the subject, so, maybe it's time to start learning.


I also think that this argument may be starting to lean against attacks on religion. Rather than the discussion at hand.

Originally Posted by footside

I compared it in the sense of something 'being around for a long time, so it should be okay'. Of course they are very different, but I was just getting my point across for that argument. As for the AIDS being a man-made thing around the 1980's, if that article is true, then why is it that HIV can still be transmitted today? Are those anti-gays still injecting this vaccine into people this very day? It couldn't be passed from genes, because as we know, homosexual intercourse cannot produce a child. And I find it hard to believe that something that has been purposefully injected 30 years ago into gays is still around. It would have died off a while ago, along with that era.

Originally Posted by Acesonnall

Okay, the problem I have with this topic is that if you speak against anything gays do (Politely) in a topic like this, you're usually viewed as a dick. To prevent this and to actually further debate. Please read the following.
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With that

OP: Christianity does not deny them human rights and you're a FOOL to even make such claims without even actually knowing for yourself. Just because you have other Christian hating people out there doesn't mean it's okay because they're a lot more wrong than you think (Making you wrong). The bible (I'm a Christian who actually knows why I'm a Christian, the complete opposite of a "Chirstfag") speaks against gay marriage and that's it, pointing out that it should be between a man and a women many times. However, an smarter Christian would know that despite the differences between you and others, you're supposed to show compassion, love, and forgiveness (But don't go around saying "God bless your heart for being Gay, god will cure you!". Never say that). God says to love your enemies. Your enemies aren't narrowed down to your average foe, but people you typically agree with.

Any Christian who wants anyone dead, who hates anyone, or who covets what another has (In the sense that one may dislike gays because they steal the potential of you being able to with the male/female you wanted to) is completely and utterly impaired and should go refresh their relationship with God.

Going more on topic, you think the main reason why people don't accept gays gay acts is because Christians don't agree with it? Dead wrong. While that is one of the prominent reasons, Christians aren't the problem. The fact that people have sacred and MORAL standings is the problem.

Look at it like this. It's not really fair that people have to be forced to amend their moral standards to accept something they originally didn't agree with. One may bring up the argument that it doesn't effect the person or their family. This is however not true, while it may not effect every day life (As it's not like gays aren't allowed to kiss in public) it does effect people emotionally and spiritually as for those who are in religions, it's against "the rules" and for those who aren't in religions, they feel as if it's disturbing and not correct as penis plus penis does not equal baby.

In argument to one could bring up the fact that gays can adopt or go to a sperm bank. Essentially, gays and gay supporters win that argument except for the fact that a child may not want to go with the homosexual parent because they are homosexual.

Another argument is that "It's not fair for people be forced to accept us? Well it's not fair for us to not have any rights! How would you like it if you didn't have any marriage right?"

This is one of those tricky arguments where those against gay marriage are often criticized for. However, this argument all depends on how society view gays (Yes, no argument can solve this as this is a personal argument). According to a gallup poll (One of the most support polls worldwide), half of Americans Support Legal Gay Marriage. This is is a 3% drop from last year as 53% percent of Americans used to support gay marriage. So as long as this number continues to go down, you know people don't recognize gay marriage as a right because they still haven't got passed the part that gays aren't normal (This is me disputing their thinking) and as long as the number goes up, you know it'll be legalized.

An additional argument in support of gays is usually asked in the form of a question and that is as follows: Yea, support for gay marriage may not be high, but how do you think blacks in America got their human rights? By never giving up!

Exactly! Honestly, NOBODY can define this world. This world is shaped by human thought and action. As long as gays and gay supporters keep pushing and don't change their views/sexuality, then you may succeed. The main problem I have with gays pushing for rights is their approach. This may or may not be the minority or majority, but of all I've seen and encountered, a lot of these people are rude about it and often become extremely aggressive on the sole basis of a person not being sure whether to support it or in the case of the OP, a person who doesn't support it.

Gay supporters: This issue is a informational issue. If you can get people to "See the light" in this debate politely (Provided they are also calm) and effectively (Winning the debate by actually proving them wrong in all areas), but also with assertion, you win. You democratically win.

Another argument opposing gay marriage is often one noted as ridiculous, but it's stated as: We are a society becoming tolerant of everything we do and are losing our sacred values. We are exploiting little girls on television and generally treating them as if they were adults (I.E Toddlers in Tiaras) rather making them actually have a childhood, children's TV networks are allowing more violence into their shows than ever before, and now we've allowing people to do such "strange" things as getting married to the opposite sex? Are we going to define marriage next as "Any person or groups of people who love and cherish each other?"

While it may sound ridiculous to some in the sense that "Are you serious? Of course that wouldn't happen.", but in refutation, one could just spit back "Well, look at gays. The majority of us used to oppose that and now we "apparently see the light"."