Yeah, shooting muslims migrants definitely won't help ISIS recruit more soldiers, right? It definitely won't exacerbate the conditions that allow ISIS to grow, right?

I don't want to see any more emotional, thoughtless, borderline bigoted posts in this thread from now on. Go to /pol/ if you want to make suggestions like killing migrants.

I don't care if they grow, but I don't want them growing in Europe. Their home territories decreased a lot in the past year anyways due to the international efforts.


It wasn't emotional, it had plenty of thought and yes, it might be bigoted but it doesn't make it wrong.
Have fun in your liberal echo chamber.

Unfortunately for you, bigoted talk in toribash isn't allowed. I'll be deleting further posts that express bigoted viewpoints. As I said, go to /pol/ if you want to spew hate.

seriously you both
dont blame religion for this shit
this people dont care for anyone and they are using islam as a cover to do they're stuff and trick people to join them
pls grow up and stop making islam as an exuse. think logically, try to cross the lines and you will figure out.
also if you forgot all the world is affected by ISIS including all the countrys and all the religions

You've raised a good argument and one that I agree with, to an extent. The ones in charge, I believe, are in it for purely political and economic reasons. The people that are drawn to ISIS and follow ISIS however, the people who are willing to blow themselves up for the cause, these people do buy into the jihadist interpretation of Islam. It's a problem within Islam. The problem is it has an exclusivist subsect (salafi jihadism) which believes that everyone outside of that subsect are infidels and should die. It's a theological problem of Islam dealing with different interpretations of the faith.

In conflicts between exclusivist and cosmopolitan identity groups, what needs to happen for the situation to be resolved is we need to reconstruct a legitimate (cosmopolitan) political authority that has the trust of the populace. As I've said before, groups like ISIS control their territories and their followers by peddling fear and hatred - we need to get rid of the fear and hatred. The populace needs to trust whoever the next people in charge are. I'd argue that it's not really our (the West's) place to develop this resolution, the solution should come from within Islam itself. There's needs to be a push to discredit exclusivism and a push to increase pluralism. For all of this to come together and work, the political authority needs to be coming from a pluralist persuasion. If the West wants to do something, we should be supporting and encouraging pluralist voices and debate. That's be in our and Islam's best interests.

well let me just correct one point:
i know my religion and blowing your self to kill innocent people is not jihadism
there is nothing in islam courage people to kill people. the only people you can kill are people who are trying to kill you no more no less.
i've read something in koran saying if you are in a war dont kill anyone or anything except for the one who fighting you, even a flower is not ok to kill.
i have to agree on everything else

imo, behead those who insult islam
also that sounds like the no true Scotsman fallacy

First of all, who do you think you are? The prophet? Are you god or allah? How can you speak for others on what Islam is and how they should practice their religion. You clearly don't even know your own scripture. The jihadists blowing up a buss full of children (granted they are not muslims) are just as much of a muslim as you are. Just because you disagree with their ideals and interpretations doesnt mean they are not "true" muslims. I'd argue that terrorist are often the most "true" to their scripture.

I think these should speak for themselves.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah (not believing in allah) is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (not believing in islam) and worship is for Allah alone.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



No matter how many nice and loving quotes you post after these, they wont matter. With these (and more) quotes the jihadists are just as right as you are in the context of islam.
Remember, the quaran is never wrong so kill all infedels? Right? Or could it be that the quaran is actually a violent and a bigoted book filled with a thousand fallacies?
I think that should be enough said for my arguments sake. Islam is a horrible religion and a abhorent set of ideals for a person to follow.

It's stupid that I always have to say this after every post:

Most muslims are not bad people, obviously, but they do support a horrible, violent and bigoted set of ideals through their religion

I didnt look at the other quotes but I searched the first one and youve warped it a lot

heres the actual quote

"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."
"And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
"Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors."

its about retaliation not just killing them because they are non believers. And it clearly gives the message not to be aggressive towards people who are not also oppressive and aggressive


also you can find similar quotes in pretty much every religion, christianity is particularly easy. I also very much doubt that any of those quotes youve taken havent been warped in some way or taken out of context where context is important.


Also Islam is going through its reformation phase at the moment, whereby it is adapted to fit better into the modern world, this is the same stage Christianity was going through in the Crusade area of time which is pretty comparable to what radical muslims are trying to do now.

You are absolutely right about the christianity (and other religions part), most religions are violent and bigoted by default, being written thousands of years ago and all. The only difference is that islam is still not past its crusades, but is that a justification? You are trying to defend violent bigots by saying "its just a period", you should be ashamed of yourself. Also you are not so stupid to not know that muslims concider all these translations to be incorrect since the quran can only be read correctly in arabic. What we are arguing over is a slight difference in tone with english translations, which are in the end is very meaningless. You nor I are not qualified to argue over the interpretations of specific verses, and if you try to twist those passages to become nonviolent I regard your statements to have no value as they would become purely biased. Weather they are absolutely 100% violent or just somewhat, is not important in this discussion.

Also, I have not twisted the quotes by any means. When you simply google those verses, you will not find those you put forth, instead pretty simular ones to the ones I provided.
You provide no source for your quotes, just saying these are "correct", while not even knowing that none of them can be correct in english, what an ignorant view.

Doule also
"Fight them (earlier referred to killing) until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors."

Kill them if they dont become muslims. Pretty straight forward to me. Even with your "correct" quotes.