Original Post
Community Outreach
Hey,
Something that's been on my mind for a while and that I've been meaning to do is having a conversation with the community about what you all would like and what changes you would want to happen.
We can also address any questions or concerns you might have or general things you want to say to our team to improve our communication.
I feel throughout the years the divide between the players and staff has gotten greater and would like to see the connection between us be improved.
This thread is going to, for a while at least, act as a basis for improving community-staff interaction.
Some things that I personally want to improve on and hope will happen:
- Communication
- Game activity
- Game enjoyability
- Events
Along with anything else that might be brought up in this thread.
Let me explain what I mean by improving communication:
There is a giant divide between staff and players.
I understand how frustrated the community might be with staff over things like not being informed about the clan system change and about prizes on events.
We're staff of this game for the players and we’d like to make this more obvious and visible through our actions, and to make sure everyone feels included.
We get a lot of feedback in the form of backlash and banter.
I want to change that and focus our discussions on what the game needs more.
The staff team will listen to any suggestion brought up and try our best to respond to everything.
Regarding game activity:
We all know that the Toribash has been losing players for a while now.
However, there are usually way more beginners online than there are people on the forums if that is any consolation.
This is why we are planning to move even more events client-side soon.
There have already been some very successful ingame events:
- Free Run Frenzy
- Hole In The Wall
These events have gotten amazing participation from everyone, and we want to do more events like this.
We believe that other events whether competitive, art-related, single-player, etc, will benefit greatly by being advertised and run in the game client.
Our main focus will be events focused on beginners, which will hopefully keep beginner retention up.
There are also some plans to make new items which are accessible to and aimed at beginners.
I'm interested in knowing what the community thinks about this.
For the time being, there will still be events held on the forums but as soon as we can get some dev work done to bring everything to the game client, we'll do that.
Regarding game enjoyability:
This is something that we need your input on, this is your game, and you're playing it.
- What kind of changes do you want to see?
There have been some ideas which could change up the meta a little bit in mods like ABD,TK,JF, and particularly lenshu.
If anyone remembers LesDuncan and what he was doing with TPL, it's sort of similar to the martial arts community now, in the way they've hosted fightnight events and they make new mods.
LesDuncan made a version of ABD in which lifting was still viable, however there are walls and a ceiling that prevented it from being a huge difficulty.
This mod is not perfect, but I would like to see what you all think about it.
In particular, what (if anything) would be required for you to consider it a competitive mod?
About Lenshu:
I believe Kane and fl0w have done an exceptionally good job on their winpoint lenshu mod.
When I mention TPL, this is the kind of mod that I'm imagining.
The running issue has been fixed, and a new feature like winpoints were added.
The communities reception on this event has always been good and in a competitive scene most people prefer this mod to normal lenshu3ng.
I'd like to ask everyone a question: when you play the game does it still feel rewarding?
Do you have anything you want to do in the game still, do you want more purpose?
There are ideas like a free battlepass, just quests for rewards.
Another one that we've had is automated tourneys with different rewards, starts at 10 people in the lobby, could be more TC than usual, or rewards from magicalsack(like an automated etourney but with worse rewards) but like stated previously, we're unsure what we should do.
My vision would be making adjustments to every competitively played mod and hosting events in them.
Just with slight adjustments, the way we play these mods is changed and it makes it more fun.
Regarding events:
Historically, prizes for events have rarely been amazing, and I know that there have been players complaining about prizes not being the best and I agree.
There has been a huge lack of competitive events, excluding clan league and WC, there haven't been any competitive multiplayer events hosted in a while.
There are some events that we're working on right now, and would like to get out soon, I'd just like to see what people have to say about TPL.
Summary:
In conclusion, the things that I want to work on are:
- Staff-Player interaction, keeping the community updated and asking for what the community wants
- More client-side events
- Working on different versions of the main 5 mods, seeing if there's any way to improve the competitive mod-list
- Better prizes and events, more frequent events
- Making the game more fun, adding new features to hopefully improve retention, new goals and a sense of purpose
- Any new content that is possible to do
I want to have a constructive discussion about these topics and address any questions or concerns you might have about anything not mentioned in this thread.
The OP will be updated if there's anything to update, and I hope this discussion will stick around for a while.
Thank you to everyone who spent their time on reading.
And if you want a shiai token, feel free to take this survey or spread it around in your circles
MS survey for the dueling community, feel free to take it for an ST. input is immensely appreciated.
Something that's been on my mind for a while and that I've been meaning to do is having a conversation with the community about what you all would like and what changes you would want to happen.
We can also address any questions or concerns you might have or general things you want to say to our team to improve our communication.
I feel throughout the years the divide between the players and staff has gotten greater and would like to see the connection between us be improved.
This thread is going to, for a while at least, act as a basis for improving community-staff interaction.
Some things that I personally want to improve on and hope will happen:
- Communication
- Game activity
- Game enjoyability
- Events
Along with anything else that might be brought up in this thread.
Let me explain what I mean by improving communication:
There is a giant divide between staff and players.
I understand how frustrated the community might be with staff over things like not being informed about the clan system change and about prizes on events.
We're staff of this game for the players and we’d like to make this more obvious and visible through our actions, and to make sure everyone feels included.
We get a lot of feedback in the form of backlash and banter.
I want to change that and focus our discussions on what the game needs more.
The staff team will listen to any suggestion brought up and try our best to respond to everything.
Regarding game activity:
We all know that the Toribash has been losing players for a while now.
However, there are usually way more beginners online than there are people on the forums if that is any consolation.
This is why we are planning to move even more events client-side soon.
There have already been some very successful ingame events:
- Free Run Frenzy
- Hole In The Wall
These events have gotten amazing participation from everyone, and we want to do more events like this.
We believe that other events whether competitive, art-related, single-player, etc, will benefit greatly by being advertised and run in the game client.
Our main focus will be events focused on beginners, which will hopefully keep beginner retention up.
There are also some plans to make new items which are accessible to and aimed at beginners.
I'm interested in knowing what the community thinks about this.
For the time being, there will still be events held on the forums but as soon as we can get some dev work done to bring everything to the game client, we'll do that.
Regarding game enjoyability:
This is something that we need your input on, this is your game, and you're playing it.
- What kind of changes do you want to see?
There have been some ideas which could change up the meta a little bit in mods like ABD,TK,JF, and particularly lenshu.
If anyone remembers LesDuncan and what he was doing with TPL, it's sort of similar to the martial arts community now, in the way they've hosted fightnight events and they make new mods.
LesDuncan made a version of ABD in which lifting was still viable, however there are walls and a ceiling that prevented it from being a huge difficulty.
This mod is not perfect, but I would like to see what you all think about it.
In particular, what (if anything) would be required for you to consider it a competitive mod?
About Lenshu:
I believe Kane and fl0w have done an exceptionally good job on their winpoint lenshu mod.
When I mention TPL, this is the kind of mod that I'm imagining.
The running issue has been fixed, and a new feature like winpoints were added.
The communities reception on this event has always been good and in a competitive scene most people prefer this mod to normal lenshu3ng.
I'd like to ask everyone a question: when you play the game does it still feel rewarding?
Do you have anything you want to do in the game still, do you want more purpose?
There are ideas like a free battlepass, just quests for rewards.
Another one that we've had is automated tourneys with different rewards, starts at 10 people in the lobby, could be more TC than usual, or rewards from magicalsack(like an automated etourney but with worse rewards) but like stated previously, we're unsure what we should do.
My vision would be making adjustments to every competitively played mod and hosting events in them.
Just with slight adjustments, the way we play these mods is changed and it makes it more fun.
Regarding events:
Historically, prizes for events have rarely been amazing, and I know that there have been players complaining about prizes not being the best and I agree.
There has been a huge lack of competitive events, excluding clan league and WC, there haven't been any competitive multiplayer events hosted in a while.
There are some events that we're working on right now, and would like to get out soon, I'd just like to see what people have to say about TPL.
Summary:
In conclusion, the things that I want to work on are:
- Staff-Player interaction, keeping the community updated and asking for what the community wants
- More client-side events
- Working on different versions of the main 5 mods, seeing if there's any way to improve the competitive mod-list
- Better prizes and events, more frequent events
- Making the game more fun, adding new features to hopefully improve retention, new goals and a sense of purpose
- Any new content that is possible to do
I want to have a constructive discussion about these topics and address any questions or concerns you might have about anything not mentioned in this thread.
The OP will be updated if there's anything to update, and I hope this discussion will stick around for a while.
Thank you to everyone who spent their time on reading.
And if you want a shiai token, feel free to take this survey or spread it around in your circles
MS survey for the dueling community, feel free to take it for an ST. input is immensely appreciated.
Last edited by ancient; Feb 4, 2022 at 07:12 PM.
as of now the tutorial only shows how to punch a dummy and iirc catch uke in lenshu, i see hella players that are blue belt+ and still dont know how to use the ingame market or what /jo means. include a small interface tutorial to help them with this.
Last edited by supatroop; Feb 10, 2022 at 03:20 PM.
Originally Posted by Lucci
Market Statistics show that with the implementation of the new market system, the new market system has generated more transactions per capita, with less players. It does get a bit dicey when discussing price fluctuation. As a member of MS and a avid marketer myself, I do try and avoid causing unnecessary price fluctuation that would destabilize current pricing for items. But alas it cannot be always stopped. Take the 2048 head for example. It was exclusive with only 3 copies at launch. Now there are well over 15 iirc. But the price didn't deviate that much from where it was. Sure it did go down in price, but it stabilized to a healthy rate in the current market eco-system. I do share sentiments regarding random price fluctuations but do bear in mind, it is inevitable to an extent. Something is only worth as much as someone will pay for it after all.
That's not an issue as far as I'm concerned. What was troubling in the past were drastic changes, such as previously limited items being released for sale on TC shop or supply going from being 3 of a kind for years to then 40 of a kind in less than a month.
Originally Posted by sir
On a more serious note, there's been no response because there isn't going to be any specific action taken.
We will re-release items, adjust their prices or do anything else with the shop as we see fit. Shop sales will keep happening, and some items will keep being made available again or removed from shop depending on their popularity. Just because some item got extremely overpriced in market due to it being unpopular when it was originally in the shop and thus getting only 4 of its copies sold doesn't we'll try to adapt to whatever price it still goes for in market when returning it to shop. Likewise, if some item got released at a specific price years ago, it doesn't mean that same price will stay forever - if we think the price should be changed, we may do that.
The only category of items that we don't usually touch are event items which were supposed to be only owned by event winners/participants. They might get used again for something, but I don't remember us doing that in past years (unless it was explicitly stated that those items won't be exclusive to event winners, e.g. Superior color).
If you'd like to work on new items or help with shop regulartion so we could release new stuff more often and not have to re-release old items, both Item Forgers and Market Squad are always recruiting and would be happy to get some new people. There were some good points regarding ST/TC pricing inconsistencies made here, if you have ideas on a generic rate to stick to I'll be happy to look into that.
Does this statement still hold value today? Because 2048 head supply going from 3 to 15 over months and months doesn't really mean anything in comparison to things that happened in the past with slingshot, sharko the shark, etc. Some item price changes were as drastic as going from 300k+ to under 50k.
Also, if it is the case that you are planning to adjust prices in the future or re-release items, we need more transparency about how it's being done. If Market Squad has a say in these decisions, you obviously know price changes ahead of the market, which is unfair towards the rest of us. If that is the case then MS members, Smods and other higher staff should not be allowed to market at all.
Last edited by Smaguris; Feb 10, 2022 at 05:16 PM.
Originally Posted by supatroop
as of now the tutorial only shows how to punch a dummy and iirc catch uke in lenshu, i see hella players that are blue belt+ and still dont know how to use the ingame market or what /jo means. include a small interface tutorial to help them with this.
we hear you. we'll start working on some kind of tutorials soon and see what can be done. interface tutorials and perhaps some gameplay tutorials too
Originally Posted by sir
I think you're overestimating how much TC/ST gets generated by different sources and kinda missing the point of new market.
Players who actively participate in ES events, do marketing and use daily rewards as their main source of Toribash "income" - they're all different (often not even intersecting) groups of people. Daily rewards were mainly introduced as a way to allow beginners and amateur players to get TC without having to grind 24/7, but they're also a drop in the ocean for any established player who'd focus on marketing or playing in tourneys/events. It's also wrong to assume that every player gets 3K TC + 1 ST weekly - there's only a small number of people who actually keep the streak to be able to claim 800 TC and 1 ST rewards on 6th and 7th days respectively. A little over 75% of all players who claimed their reward this week didn't continue their streak and over 93% of players are within their 3-day streak (350 TC total).
The number of players who can "easily get 19 ST" in an event is so insignificant that it's not even worth bringing them up. Of course there'd be pro replay makers or duelers who'd wreck any relevant event they come across, but don't forget they've played for years and mastered the game so they kinda deserve that? It's not like anyone can just play for a few weeks and make enough ST/TC to buy a void pack, so I'm not sure what's the point you were trying to make there.
What's more, different types of players spend their TC/ST differently - a beginner/amateur user is more likely to get their items from the in-game shop rather than wait for an offer in market. They usually want to actually get the item too instead of maxing out on the resell value like the marketers do (which is neither good nor bad - but it does heavily affect how your shop/market usage). At the end of the day, most of the TC spawned by login rewards ends up either abandoned on the account if a user stops playing or it goes back to the shop when they buy from it.
Market tax, however, is primarily targeted at long-time players who'd be more involved in trading - it takes the "live" TC out of circulation and tries to keep the economy healthier by reducing inflation. It's been added so we have a sustainable TC sink that doesn't rely on manual labor, be it creating new items for the shop, coming up with yet another "sell a 100-symbol-long bit of html code as a usertitle and charge 200k for it" sinks and so on. New market provides you access to a way wider audience than the old one, gives you more features and the tax is relatively conservative (you'd likely pay more to your government if you wanted to buy a can of coke in your local grocery store). It does potentially hit big marketers who trade items that are worth ~million of TC total per month, but they can purchase a market premium subscription to both get their shop featured, make their offers more competitive and earn more TC by not having to pay the tax.
The "why have login rewards if learning curve is too steep" mindset sounds exactly like "why have healthcare system if there's garbage on the street" to me. Learning gameplay mechanics is barely related to the ability to customize your character in-game, and you definitely don't improve one by making it harder to make use of the other.
but in my view that huge grind that the new players have to make to get TC in the beginning its what makes them survive the learning curve, and just as i said, whats the point of making a tax in the market that you can simply chose to avoid?
every player would rather send a message to someone that have the item they want in the market and buy it so the seller doesn't pay any tax and the buyer will buy it cheaper? in long term i see people driving away from the market simply to avoid taxes or simply getting shiais to buy the full packs
