I'm not arguing that Hitler was a good man. I know that he was twisted, and killed 6 million Jews, including several millions of other groups such as gypsies and homosexuals, but you probably don't know about those because the Jews run the news. I'm arguing that had he not been so evil in his actions, he would have been deemed a great leader. I would go as far to say that aside from the war and his war policies (aka Holocaust), Adolf Hitler was the greatest leader of the 20th century.

This man was the 1938 Time Magazine Man of the Year, which is ironic now looking back, but before he went crazy, he was the figure that Germany could really rally behind. He installed a new wave of German nationalism that hadn't been present in the country since Otto von Bismarck. He revamped the military and put millions of dollars into scientific research. He built the Autobahn, the Volkswagen and several other projects such as dams and a railroad (which was subsequently destroyed by the Allies)

Also, you vilify him because he killed 11,000,000 people, but you forget that this figure is only a quarter of the amount of deaths that Joseph Stalin caused, who was with the Allied forces.

Also, it's not like Hitler did this by himself. WW2 was just as much the Allies fault for sitting by and watching the Nazi party expand(and also helping it expand) as it is Hitler's insane mind. FDR knew that a Japanese attack was imminent, he waited for the attack as an excuse to break the Monroe Doctrine (he broke it by "island hopping" across the Pacific, which was controlled by the Holy Empire according to the Monroe Doctrine). Furthermore, some Americans actually helped the Nazis. Prescott Bush funded the Nazi death machines until 1943, which was a violation of the Trading with the Enemies Act.

Well, imagine if you were one of the people who was going to be or is related to someone who is going to be killed because he hates your race. Ain't it evil and sick? I bet you're going to hate him so much. People are judged by their actions, all the information you gave make him a great leader but that doesn't make him a better human being. That doesn't make him less evil.

You're not reading my posts well, thus you don't understand my point, which is why you keep going back to the Holocaust. Again, I'm talking about his policies OTHER THAN his "purification" plan. He was thought of as a hero before WW2, and that's the Hitler that I'm referencing. Also, I never said he was a good human being (albeit, LT made a good point that he wasn't insane, which I'm starting to agree with), but his policies which helped the German people never made him evil, just the Holocaust fiasco, which I'm trying to overlook in my argument, yet you keep bringing it up.

@Silent
What does it matter that he build roads, he killed people man who cares about the roads its like your saying who ever builds roads and develops a country is the greatest leader of the 20th century. I mean many leaders and regimes have done that hes not the only one. But its like your forgetting all about the deaths and WW2 you cant just deny that fact, and you cant just leave that out and say "If Hitler would have not started the war he would be the greatest leader of the past century" because thats what you are saying.

[--:--:--] LT: I never argued with your point
[--:--:--] [Hunters]SilentAssassin: Yay, that means I may not have another flame argument
[--:--:--] LT: I doubt that
[--:--:--] LT: I don't even believe that Hitler was insane
[--:--:--] LT: You assume that at one point he flipped and started being all evil and messiah-like
[--:--:--] LT: Which doesn't make that much sense in my eyes
[--:--:--] [Hunters]SilentAssassin: I'd like to think that it was a gradual fall into insanity
[--:--:--] LT: I think it's more likely that he was biding his time, getting as popular as he possibly could before even attempting something that he knew people would never support before he was their hero


The above is part of a conversation me and Silent had a bit after that. What Silent is saying that Hitler was a capable leader, and that is as undeniable as the atrocities he committed later in his career. If he wasn't a good leader, he never would have been able to rise in power and to have enormous influence over his citizens. He never said he approved of his actions during the war and the holocaust, he simply remarked that before those events Hitler was a favorite everywhere. And if you trust history, it would be hard to dispute that. And you have to remember that Hitler couldn't possibly kill vast numbers of people on his own. In fact, I doubt he himself murdered that often, if ever. He was just one man, one man can't kill millions of people on his own. The armies he commands can, though. It's another thing I will probably never understand, the soldier's mentality. They are basically pawns who spend their lives living by orders and occasionally dying by other soldiers' orders. That willingness to completely submit to an authority is ludicrous to me.

I got to add, that violence already were involved when Hitler started his politic career, and without violence he might never would have become the leader of Germany, but who knows. Also the plans for the Autobahn already existed before Hitler, he just was the guy who've started to build them. I got to admit that he was smart indeed, since he knew exactly what words he have to choose to convince the people with the stuff he wanted them to believe.

Yet I think a good leader wouldn't lie to his own country and Hitler used quite alot of lies to keep the Germans calm during the war.



@Wanin: I'm German


Edit: Got Lordtiger'd by LT, this post was thought to be some kind of addtion to Shrimps post

Right I'm utterly confused about how the topic went from books to Hitler, but I'll add what I know about him.

He wasn't generally a bad person before WW2. From what I know he did what he did because he was corrupted by power. At the start of WW2 Germany's economy was failing, and Hitler did things which boosted the economy, and because of that people started to see him as a german icon, and a leader. At the beginning his intention might have been good, all he probably wanted to do was help his country. Although I don't know why, eventually he started to abuse his power. At some point in the line of power, if their given too much, they start to abuse it. I think that's what my teacher told me last year. But yeah, after a while he started to get into his head the idea his idea of a perfect Aryan race, which is amusing because he had none of the traits of his so-called pure race. Then believing that the only way to achieve his dream was to eradicate everyone else who didn't have Aryan traits. I believe that's how WW2 started, I'm not too sure my history teacher last year wasn't very good...

Looks like I am on the allies list still lol. So Hai.

Miss read Silent's post. :u what a shame. I thought he was saying that hitler wasn't that evil xD My bad.

Ohai


Also, I guess we should change the discussion topic, since it seems like the Hitler topic leads to quite some misunderstandings Dx

Or lets return to books.

Last one I've read was Metro 2033 which was quite awesome in my opinion, wasn't the easiest book to read tho, due to all those russian names and stuff.