HTOTM: FUSION
First of all, it depends on which Islamic scholar you ask. They are all in disagreement as to what extent the Quran advocates this. However, the Quran does urge men and women to dress and behave modestly in society. The Quran does not specifically mention the Burqa or tells women to wear such extremely confining clothes. The Ulema or the Scholars do agree that the Quran says women should not wear extremely revealing clothes. Modern day muslims base their authority regarding the Burqa on the Hadith or collected traditions of life in the days of Muhammad the prophet. But a noteworthy objection is that Hadith describes 7th century Arabian life, which should not be imposed on modern day Muslims world wide. Muslim communities also argue that women are to dress modestly but should not be forced or punished to wear a Burqa. This is why many Muslim communities have different preferences regarding the application of the Burqa.

Doesn't say anything about some bullshit raid, nor does it specifically mention the burqa. Just says women should dress modestly. I'd say the burqa is pretty modest.

Also, "google it" is hardly an adequate argument. Google is a browser, and for every question you'll get a thousand answers if that's your solution to every problem, depending on whether you look at CNN, FOX, or any other extremely biased source that PAYS to be the first result.

So you can leave now.
Last edited by Xtreme; Jan 18, 2010 at 02:20 AM.
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This type of dress has its origins with desert times long before Islam arrived. It had two functions. Firstly as a sand mask in windy conditions. This would be worn by men and women and is still common today. For women only the masking of the face and body was used when one group was being raided by another. These raids often involved the taking of women of child bearing age. With all women hidden behind a veil the chances of being taken were substantially reduced as the women of child bearing age could not be quickly distinguished from the very young and the old in the turmoil of fighting.

Many Muslims believe that the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an, and the collected traditions of the life of Muhammed, or hadith, require both men and women to dress and behave modestly in public. However, this requirement, called hijab, has been interpreted in many different ways by Islamic scholars and Muslim communities; the burqa is not specifically mentioned in the Quran.

Right there is the history of the burqa.
Bounafizta says:
My love for u has gotten me detention like 4 times lol
Originally Posted by Rutten View Post
I never said anywhere that most muslims are suicide bombers (lol), I am saying that there are muslim suicide bombers. And these MSB's will use Selfdestruct if they find that one of their traditional, religious items are taken from them. Thats like 200 base damage.

@TacoBELL; We didn't miss what you typed, we just didn't give a shit.

Yes, there are Muslim suicide bombers. But this does not mean that we should assume that they will blow themselves up over this issue.
In fact, if we think like that, we can't take anything away from any group of people, because some of them will go crazy and asplode themselves

And in case you didn't read my earlier post, I don't think the burqas should be banned. All that we disagree about is the reason
Anywho, now that that waste of time has been dealt with, may we return back to the debate? Or does TacoBELL still want to argue?

@Steroids: Except for the fact that Muslims are prone to use Explosion more than any other group.

Originally Posted by Rutten View Post
Anywho, now that that waste of time has been dealt with, may we return back to the debate? Or does TacoBELL still want to argue?

Debate is nothing but arguing.
Bounafizta says:
My love for u has gotten me detention like 4 times lol
Originally Posted by Xtreme View Post
Nice to know that 20 years equals a decade. Thank you for enlightening us all, oh great and mighty troll. And I'm talking about the U.S., and I also said the MAJORITY of attacks, not all of them. If you want to read posts selectively, do it in Wibbles.

Also, agreeing with Rutten on TACObells' points; your interpretation of the Qu'ran is not the one that matters; it's theirs.

So even though this is a debate about the rights of european muslims, you're talking about america, which is ridiculous really, considering that their were more people killed in the 2005 London bombings alone than have been killed in islamic terrorist attacks on american soil since 9/11 - and that includes attacks on embassies abroad, by the way.

oh hey - could that suggest that america, while largely to blame for shaking the hornets nest, is largely out of the picture regarding acts of terrorism against civilians? Well, yes, actually.. i mean there was the Beltway sniper, and the guy who rove a jeep into a crowd, but that's hardly on the scale of what europe has seen is it?

As for the 'majority of attacks' argument - well that's rather hard to back up with evidence, isn't it? I mean the majority of terrorist acts by muslims seem to be carried out against other muslims in muslim countries, whereas this debate is about western countries, and the policies towards muslims 'over here'. I'd like to add the point that looking at the last decade alone is not enough, if one wants to have any understanding of the history and development of terrorism, which is why i gave the arbitrary statement of 20 years (incidentally, you need to look back further than this anyway to gauge the development of terror as a political force, and waaaay further back still to understand the conflict between the islamic world and the western one).

Now i'm gonna assume that you are an american, and therefore, like the majority of americans, largely ignorant as to european and middle eastern affairs. The richest european countries (that would be places like Great Britain, Germany, France etc, by the way) have rather large muslim populations. These groups of muslims are very 'westernised', however, and should not be confused with the kind of extremist found more commonly in the middle east - the wearing of the Burqua is rather rare in europe already, and banning it would not be some sort of sweeping oppressive move. Most muslims who live here wouldn't be THAT concerned by it, and although it would offend some people, it is the right of the governments to pass laws like these.
Nein, debate is arguing with a purpose, not throwing out bullshit from Google.

Either get back on topic or leave, because you're wasting everyones' time.

I stand by my opinion that the burqa should be banned in the workplace and places in which that garment would constitute a hazard to the wearer.

EDIT:

H4rl, I'm aware that there are a large population of Muslims in Europe, and that not all of them are Shi'a extremists. I am stating what I know (note that I actually said AFAIK twice, a pretty good indicator that I may not know). Also, a quick Wikipedia check on terrorism within the last decade states that there were, as you said, plenty of non-Muslim attacks, but at least 50% (or more) were. And I'm also aware that the U.S. isn't the only place that gets attacked by Muslims. I was simply going by empirical evidence rather than making assumptions about other countries before researching it. I agree with almost everything you just said. Also, it's fairly obvious that this goes back a long way, but a decade seemed like a decent enough time frame due to the fact that we're talking about Muslim conflict in the modern world, specifically the removal of the burqa. I'm sure that the same conflicts have happened over and over again in the past, and will continue to, but for now let's keep things present-tense, eh?
Last edited by Xtreme; Jan 18, 2010 at 02:30 AM.
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[21:27] <+siku> huge penis in War's mouth
[21:27] <+siku> are you still confused?
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[21:27] <+siku> are you still confused
[21:27] <Xtreme> not anymore :D
@TacoBELL: Not when it has almost no relevence to the original topic.
edit: Fuck me, people should stop ninja'ring
My view is similar to Xtremes, if the burqa obstructs the wearer from doing her job then take it off. If it doesn't then screw it, let them wear it.
Last edited by Rutten; Jan 18, 2010 at 02:30 AM.

Originally Posted by Rutten View Post
@Steroids: Except for the fact that Muslims are prone to use Explosion more than any other group.

Oh hey, more ignorance here!

The use of bombs as a tool in terrorism isn't limited to muslims. Pretty much ever terrorist group, from jews to catholics, has made extensive use of explosive devices. Terrorists use whatever they can get their hands on, regardless of religion - Islamic terrorists have decapitated kidnapped westerners, driven jeeps through crowds, and used a number of methods to spread fear.
I never said the bombs were the muslims exclusive property did I? No.
And then you just spurt shit about Islamic fear tactics.