HTOTM: FUSION
Originally Posted by NiKva View Post
He's old enough to be tried as an adult, so he's guaranteed life in jail.

I woildn't say life in jail, since the justice system really pussies out.

More like 20 years with lifetime rehabilitation.
the inner machinations of my mind are an enigma
Sadly, we will probably never get to know the outcome of his case. I mean, we get the big media thing of the call and stuff and after that nothing. I mean, I'd really like to know after all, since that's kinda important.

For the call, the guy was kinda calm but he's not quite a talker for sure. As I listened several minutes, it was kinda disappointing. If the dispatcher didn't lie (which I think she probably did) he'd face a really short jail term, which seems unrealistic for me. So the guy probably gets at least 8 years, probably more and that's a lot of time...
Last edited by BakerdreamZ; Nov 18, 2012 at 07:07 PM.
8 years is still a long ass time... I hate how people forget even if they are in jail for 5 years. THAT'S FIVE YEARS THEY WILL NEVER GET BACK! Imagine doing something you hate for 5 years, you won't get that time back and that's what people in jail feel. (for the most part of convicts)

So to be all sad that this kid might get so many years, remember IT'S YEARS! Not like the kid would spend a month, still a long ass time. He will never get it back.
But in all reality... I think I might be insane...
i really do belive that he regrets doing this and that he needs help. if i was him i would kill my self... think about it how would you feel if you killed ur parents... he has balls to not already have killed himself. Just leave this kid alone it another thing that the news teaches us kids we shouldnt know.
Of course he is emotionally instable, like every muderer is in some way. And I really feel bad about him. But: He has to take responsibility for his actions.
Imagine how crime would get out of control, if someone can get away committing double homicide and be sentenced to just a few years.
All people are equal before the law. No emotional state is an excuse for such a crime, regardless how tragic the history may be. (It affects the degree of penalty, but I don't think he'll ever gets away with less than 20 years.)

Unless he is clearly certifiably insane (hope the dictionary got this word right) and not responsible for his actions, which would make him either mentally ill or mentally disabled.
If that's the case he'll come into special facillities.
From what I think he isn't mentally ill, but that's just an unfunded opinion really. Just a gut feeling.

Either way he'll face a rough future and I feel really bad about him. He should definitely get psycological support and I really hope that he has someone on his side threw all of this.

P.S: I'm surprized that noone mentioned how excellent the operator dealt with this call. I don't think that there is a better way. She probably saved him from committing suicide.
Last edited by bigGrin; Nov 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM.
Poor kid. The next few years is going to be really hard for him but IMO I say he needs some help. Hopefully someone is by his side supporting him through this.
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Originally Posted by bigGrin View Post
Of course he is emotionally instable, like every muderer is in some way. And I really feel bad about him. But: He has to take responsibility for his actions.
Imagine how crime would get out of control, if someone can get away committing double homicide and be sentenced to just a few years.
All people are equal before the law. No emotional state is an excuse for such a crime, regardless how tragic the history may be. (It affects the degree of penalty, but I don't think he'll ever gets away with less than 20 years.)

Unless he is clearly certifiably insane (hope the dictionary got this word right) and not responsible for his actions, which would make him either mentally ill or mentally disabled.
If that's the case he'll come into special facillities.
From what I think he isn't mentally ill, but that's just an unfunded opinion really. Just a gut feeling.

Either way he'll face a rough future and I feel really bad about him. He should definitely get psycological support and I really hope that he has someone on his side threw all of this.

P.S: I'm surprized that noone mentioned how excellent the operator dealt with this call. I don't think that there is a better way. She probably saved him from committing suicide.

Slippery slope fallacy. Just because one man doesn't get sentenced does not mean it suddenly will spiral out of control. The man who tried to kill Ronald Reagan was placed in a mental institution, rather than prison, and assault and murder didn't spike after his conviction.

lolno. Nobody is equal under the law. It's an ideal, not a fact. With justice upheld by the whim of a group of random idiots, sifted through by both sides to get "invested" (read as unlikely to side with their client) individuals out of the pot so they can get the mindless, opinion-less, sheep who are easy to convince to sit in the jury, who get briefed on the nature of the crime over a period of a couple hours of more emotional appeal than logical appeal, presented by individuals whose goals range from maintaining a prosecution rate to getting money, then sentenced on the whim of a random "qualified" individual appointed by a politically motivated individual who believes they share personal ideals, and who's protected from job loss, short of scandal, for his/her entire career, begs the question of whether ANYBODY can be considered, let alone treated, equal with anybody else under the law.

Emotional state IS a valid reason to excuse a crime. If I hold a gun to your head and tell you to murder somebody, and you do, you can be excused from murder because of violent coercion. Likewise, if somebody is mentally incapable of realizing the severity of the crime they committed, they should not be prosecuted to the same standard as somebody who was cognitive of the nature of the crime.

People are still ignoring the fact that mental rehabilitation of individuals who commit crimes like murder are not brief 2, 5, or even 10 year stints in some posh facility. They are kept in confinement the majority of the time, and they basically have the same rights of any convicted criminal. One of the major differences though is that they are guaranteed to receive psychological and psychiatric care to try to minimize or suppress the mental disorder. Most people who are confined to a mental institution are there for the majority, if not entirety, of their lives. Prison is not intended to be a punitive reaction, but a dissuasive response to prevent crime. It's not a institution of punishing the individual, but seeking to convince an everyday individual from committing a crime. A mentally unstable person will not be dissuaded by such a response, so you need to fix the individual, not punish them for it. Placing them in prison serves no good, and only accomplishes to further disturb the individual.

And in response to the comment of preventing him from committing suicide, studies report that criminals who are sentenced to life imprisonment experience greater suffering through out their life than criminals who are sentenced to death. Death is seen as an escape for a lot of people, especially from adverse conditions, like prison. So explain to me how dissuading him from committing suicide is ultimately beneficial for him if what awaits him is greater suffering through life imprisonment, rather than death?
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Originally Posted by Agentmax View Post
8 years is still a long ass time... I hate how people forget even if they are in jail for 5 years. THAT'S FIVE YEARS THEY WILL NEVER GET BACK! Imagine doing something you hate for 5 years, you won't get that time back and that's what people in jail feel. (for the most part of convicts)

So to be all sad that this kid might get so many years, remember IT'S YEARS! Not like the kid would spend a month, still a long ass time. He will never get it back.

He may never get that time back, but he doesn't deserve it.

You're just being a pussy.

Originally Posted by PurpleAce View Post
i really do belive that he regrets doing this and that he needs help. if i was him i would kill my self... think about it how would you feel if you killed ur parents... he has balls to not already have killed himself. Just leave this kid alone it another thing that the news teaches us kids we shouldnt know.

You're also victimizing him.

Originally Posted by V0nt3gr0 View Post
Poor kid. The next few years is going to be really hard for him but IMO I say he needs some help. Hopefully someone is by his side supporting him through this.

Save your empathy for those more deserving.

Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
words

I totally agree with you.
the inner machinations of my mind are an enigma
Originally Posted by NormalCitizen View Post
They actually don't.

Here's this: http://www.science20.com/news_articl...agers_violence

Parents who blame violent behaviour on videogames are idiots. But I wasn't talking about that. I never said "violent videogames make you violent" I said "violent videogames desensitize people to violence" if you play shooting games for 20 years, and you one day shoot someone irl, it will not psychologically scar you as bad as it would have if you never played a violent videogame.

Shooting in video games and/or being shot at is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING like shooting in real life or being shot at in real life. There is no desensitization that crosses over from one realm to the other. This isn't a real experience, this is a virtual world, set in mythical or historical or hypothetical realities. There is only familiarity. You hear about murders on the news all the time. Does that mean you're more capable of murder or are affected less by an actual experience involving it? Or simply that you are accustomed to hearing about murders on the news? The concept does not work when extended into situations where connections to the world we live in exist.

You are acting as an armchair psychologist: making assumptions you really don't have the expertise or knowledge to make.

As for that link, I want you to go do a study: shoot a person in front of a control group. Now expose a different group to violent video clips, and then shoot a person in front of them. You can see why the "exposure to media" might not quite matter so much in the overall picture. As for that study you linked, were the examples real or fictional? Was it made clear whether they were such? The study was very obviously done by a group with an agenda, and I can point to several factors that heavily bias the study.

Grand theft auto makes it a lot less shocking to see somebody shot through media. It also "normalizes" this experience. Yet it in NO WAY affects my emotional response to seeing violent actions that ACTUALLY happen. I can guarantee that I will not take my cues from a recreational, intentionally fictionalized, stylized entertainment game, because I know that's fake.

What's especially entertaining about this is that the people who afford and play video games regularly are actually the people LESS exposed to violence: families; they live in a relatively positive environment wherein fewer crimes occur and are witnessed. This doesn't help the argument for or against, it's just an interesting observation.



Originally Posted by SameGuy
And since you people brought this topic up:

There is no excuse for murder, this kid is not insane, he had no mental illness, he was just "tired of his family nagging him" and so he killed them. he even said -- via 911 call -- "I didn't want them to feel pain, I just wanted it to be over quickly"

These are the tell tale signs of a sociopath/psychopath.

Psychopathy is a personality disorder, aka mental illness.
Originally Posted by NormalCitizen
Even if he can be cured of this via rehab, you people don't seem to understand how severe this was. It was a premeditated strike, not a crime of passion. He fired several bullets into each corpse (while they were still in agonizing pain). And he said "I don't hate my family, I just hate the way they yell at me, and at eachother".

This was not a "scared little boy who killed his family by accident, or while in a state of trauma". His family was a wealthy and respected family. (They lived in a gated community for christ sake!). And his neighbors even said: "There was never anything so stressful in his household as to incite him to such violence".

He murdered a 15 year old girl (his sister), and his own damn mother.

He was 17, he was fully aware of the consequences of his actions.

To put it simply:

He intended to kill his family, but kill them so quickly as to avoid suffering. Then, he ended up firing multiple shots into their concious bodies when he failed at killing them instantly. His other quote:

"I didn't mean for them to feel pain or anything, I just wanted it to be over quickly... it's like everything just went wrong..."

This does not deserve sympathy. I don't want this person being released back into the general public. I think he should face capital murder charges with at least 20+ years jail time.

And think of it this way,

If your best friend killed your entire family because he "hated the way they yelled at you" and he was facing a year of rehab with a slap on the wrist, would you really want him to get off that easy, or are you people really that pathetic?
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You must be retarded, or have an equally devastating mental disability that impairs cognitive thought.

Please leave.

This wasn't a moral decision by him. It wasn't "I understand the ramifications but want to kill them anyway."

Nobody rationally decides to kill their family because they were speaking rudely to each other. If you believe he realized the consequences of his actions you are making a very big, very silly leap.
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