I love pusga's speed on SP, but for realsies I rather agree with killer3366. In multiplayer you have to take in consideration and act on what your opponent is doing in at least 2 different mods (boxshu and abd) and make a fast decision based on a huge amount of shit he does. Plus all the other considerations to score the wins.

I'd love to. Replay makers are pushing the limits in several ways.

Progression can be followed in the Book of Records. Most entries are from 2014/15. Especially records like most dms in a boom set expectations for other replay makers. The average amount of dms per boom is increasing a lot. People chain massive booms together in a sweet way. In 2008 I was happy to do a single 4dm, today it seems to be the standard to have at least 3+, otherwise it's a weak hit. Same with skeets, if it doesn't at least dm another part it's standard at most.
When it comes to tricking people jump higher, spin faster. I'm not sure if the Tricking Organisation keeps track of this but people are still pulling off tricks for the first time which is pretty impressive. When I saw Oblivions first fulltwist I was astonished. It's a regular trick now and is often accomplished without editing. DaHStevy does stuff I can only dream of. I've seen replays where I doubted gravity altogether.
The expectations toward replays increased drastically over the last years. Especially because people have infinite tries, they can get the last bit of Toris power into a move and level your previous accomplishment.
If you make a headpass replay, someone makes one with 2 heads. Then someone juggles all 4 wrists using only their feet with dq on. Then someone splits Tori and Uke in the middle, decaps them and juggles the heads between those 4 parts.
You make a parkour replay. Someone makes a parkour replay while juggling a ball.

In terms of exploring game mechanics there is the hacking front. People look into object manipulation, transforming stuff and manipulating time itself (that will be so sweet).

To be the best in MP you have to stay on top of others within the restriction, outperform them in your reactiontime and in those turnframes. No one expects you to 360 full moon manatee gainer decap your opponent to be the better player. To be the best in SP you are constantly battling people who have infinite time/tries and an empty canvas to get the perfect result.

Pulling off crazy shit in MP takes crazy skill, too. No disrespect here. Played plenty of MP myself to know that. And I'll never know how kamiko kept his wushu streaks going forever or how 0815Rocker decaped in every 4th round in tk (probably because opponents were worse back then) but the increase of skill (or results) in SP was way more drastic than the increase of skill in MP opponents. That's why it's harder to be best there.

Never got into SP, but I think it's a bit like comparing dancing to playing tennis. Which requires more skill to be great? Well, I don't know, but they are very different activities. SP is more like dancing, as there are no hard limits placed by time or opponent, and your only objective is to make something that looks cool. With tennis or MP you have to worry about the ball or opponent's foot, in addition to time limits. You can try to look good, but your creative freedom is limited by your opponent and time constraints.

As a player who has had extensive experience in both aspects of the game I think the above statement pretty much sums it up.

These two different aspects of the game are what you make of them. You can take Single Player as art and Multiplayer as competitive, or you can take Single Player as competitive (excelling above your peers, book of records, ORMO duels, etc) and multiplayer as art(Styling on your opponents, Sparring with limited time, etc).

You can take them as whatever the fuck you want them to be, but ultimately it's just a debate of what you either want to feel validated for doing or direct bias.

In the end these two aspects of the game are inevitably incomparable due to the fact they're completely different things.

SP is much harder than just winning a game, if you set out to be the best SP in toribash you are going to spend a LOT of time as where its 50/50 you will win any given match.

'multiplayer is easy' was never said. He's saying that making replays is harder than winning a match of multiplayer, if you had read what he said. As someone that has experience with both singleplayer and multiplayer I agree with Zorrow.

He said, and I quote:


Heavily implying that any given match is a 50-50 coin toss and is heavily luck dependent. Which is just ludicrous. The better you get at predicting movement, understanding the different win conditions of each mod, manipulating yourself under pressure and with the clock breathing down your neck, the more impact you have over whether you win or lose.

Any random 10th Dan Black belt or below who thinks they're walking into a cool 50-50 chance of beating the better players and duelers of their respective mod is somewhere between Dunning-Kruger and denial. But by all means- duel Killer3366 in lenshu3ng or Rk-mma sometime with all your TC, it's 50 50 so you've got a coin toss chance to double up on your earnings! huehuehue No.

Like many others have already said: SP and MP are extremely hard, if not impossible, to compare.

A big part of multiplayer is playing your opponent.

In single player, all you need is creativity/foresight + knowledge. In multiplayer, on top of that, to be the very best, you need to be able to play your opponents. The best player in multiplayer will always be reactive, whereas in singleplayer you just need to create.

The skill floor is much lower for multiplayer because you don't need to be any good at the game to play it, but the skill cap is also much higher. To be absolutely unbeatable, you have to be a master of strategy, something that takes a lot of practice as well, much like just being good at the game.

If you are really good at the game however, you are not guaranteed to be as good in multiplayer as you are in single player, because there's another person involved. Strategy, reactions and instincts become a part of the game.

I don't know how this argument has continued past the point of Cowmeat's comments. It's all apples and oranges they are different, from the perspective of an oranges player. There is vast amounts of skill required to be the best at either. I pretty much guarantee I can beat 90% of the replay making community at a game of Taekkyon/ErthTKv2.

But if I were to upload my lackluster collection of single player replays and claim dominion over the games mechanics, I'm sure a lot of hellfire and trolls wold emerge to show me the error of my ways. I hands down know I cant compare to these guys in their single player ventures.

Multiplayer skill in my opinion comes from the ability to perceive a server environment, and adapt their own repertoire of mod knowledge and reactions the the 'norm' of server community play-styles. And even try to set yourself apart.

Single player skill, is mechanical and tactical. You understand the control of your tori, and can manipulate it without the limitations of another player acting upon you. Over time you develop ways to use joints and turn-frames available to you (I know a lot of people go down to 1 these days) and from your own environment to draw information. (Replay threads, Ormo players)


All in all, I consider myself a formidable opponent in the multiplayer arena, got innumerable amounts of decap replays etc. But Single player is its own game haha. No real way to compare the two.

I leave you with this slick Jaker split.

Yeah,that can cover you 4% of the all competitive scenarios
If you want to be a Top Level player you should train in the massive exaggeration of mods created(Some mods are the same).
Don't Forget Ninjustsu,lolnade,pendulumjumper,Parkour,and even more