There was a thread here recently that sort of touched on this. It was about where the decisions we make come from. One of the points raised in that thread was that we don't really make decisions and that our neurochemistry decides what we do before we even know what we'll decide to do. This means that everything we decide to do is predetermined. We have no choice in the matter. No free will.

Determinism, broadly, is the idea that, given the exact same circumstances, you would always make the same decision. If there was another you on another planet, and that you grew up having the same genes and experiencing the same environment, that you would do everything exactly the same as you. It would make the exact same decisions.

What I want discussed is;

• Do you believe free will exists? Yes/No and Why?
• If it doesn't exist, what impact does that have on our daily lives?

I've got ideas of my own, but I'll see what people come up with before jumping in.

Depends on how you define free will. Even if someone could predict what i'm going to do in the future, it's still my consciousness that decides it. The idea that we would for some reason make decisions because of something else than logical conclusions seems more strange to me, but people like to think there's more to life than a process.
My point is that the logical process is you. That's you making a decision. The thought that you would be deprived of responsibility of your own actions might be scary to some people.

Tell me if i'm not making sense.

Free Will.
Capitalized to denote its importance as a virtue and not "just decision making".

For starters, before we get into virtue, how about we define what "free will" is supposed to mean:
Unlike engineering, chemistry, and most scientific arenas, Free Will can be studied only mentally, and not physically. You cannot dissect free will or examine it with your eyes, you cannot contain it and experiment on it with different elements, you cannot perceive, witness, observe, or study free will by any means or measure but the mind.

Free Will takes place in the metaphysical realm of psychology, idea, thought, and opinion.

It is the ability to make and engage in a decision or choice.

Does this ability exist? Not just in humans, but all mammals exhibit this ability to decide. We glorify the mouse and rat's ability to decide while ignoring our own cats at times. SOME people think ONLY humans have this ability, but im not here to debate, only define.

I am writing a fiction that covers the nature of Free Will, in fact. Recruiting too, but that's not going to help this discussion (however it touches down on your choice to contribute! ). The point being that in this fiction, the main characters are slaves with no free will until their stories begin - and they become the first of their kind to explore the depth and breadth of Free Will and Conscious Awareness (which are intrinsically intertwined).

So now why is Free Will a Virtue, what makes it virtuous to do whatever the hell i want
It is because we all share this virtue that it even is a virtue. I hold these five virtues as my core values in life and they dominate my free will: Truth, Freedom, Family, Mutual Unity, and (Martial) Arts. I use my free will to educate myself, learn, expand my awareness, improve my conscious perceptions, and refine my own life and my own decision making ability. Why is free will a virtue?
Because we all have it.
What do my 5 virtues have to do with this? They exemplify how Free Will is virtuous.

Free Will as a Virtue is the ability to possess free will and enable others to express theirs without inhibition. The coercion and deception that free will has long been used for are NOT virtuous uses of free will. Just because IT is a virtue does not mean that USING it is always virtuous!

USING free will virtuously means allowing everyone to own and operate their will. Those who disregard the free and consenting wills of others are the only wrongdoers.
Do as you will, but harm none - and you can do no wrong.

Or in other words: respect the free will of others, and your free will can never be wrongful.

I keep Free Will as Law. Even if the legislature does not recognize it, the people usually do.

Does it matter? Well! Do you think it matters how people use their free will to help or to harm?
Yes, on one end of the spectrum we have mathematics and numerical equations which predict pretty much everything from the beginning to the end - except we literally cannot use this math to make accurate predictions in regards to free will... so while many will insist that everything is predetermined, including free will, they will have to prove that the wills of others CAN be predetermined.

Burden of proof is in the "free will doesn't exist" side of the court on account of having a mathematical equation that proves we dont have free will - prove that math out: predict my next response in verbatim.

Every thing we see is a production of our brain things like color don't really exist. the world is not in color yet we see it like as if it is. do we truly have free will no we have limitations as humans and as humans we often conform to society the reason i don't go around naked is because society taught me it was wrong but that isn't really free will we will always be effected buy outer forces everything we say and do as humans can be found out why we kill ourselfs things like that is that really free will? We also have instincts that ee automatically do is that free will? Did i choose to cry when i was born? Did my mother choose to be impregnated? Did my father choose to ejaculate? Is that free will
Fate is saying we have our whole lives written in stone do we? Is every decision we make controlled?
Well yes and no you can't say it is and you can't say its now but we are predisposed to everything so i don't think you can say there is truly free will

First of all, your entire post is just insane, but I'd like to touch on this. Since I'm not gonna touch on that whole clusterfuck you posted.

Burden of proof is always on the positive. That's how it works. The burden of proof is not on the person who denies god, but the one who says there is one.
Same applies for this.

"having a mathematical equation that proves we dont have free will - prove that math out: predict my next response in verbatim."

Also, what the actual fuck?





To me the question of free will is pretty hard to answer, since its quite rooted in semantics. Absolute free will?, nah I don't think so. Our enviornment and internal mechanisms such as the brain, dictate a lot of our decissions. But I'd be ready to call the will that we have (dictated by the universe or not) free, none the less. Even if it might be an "illusion"
To me the question isn't super meaningfull. But hey, thats just me.

well if it exists, i'd like to see it. if there literally exists an example that shows that free will does not exist, i would like to see that example. that's what i am asking is proof that this is true.

If we dont have free will, then one ought rightly be capable of proving that i do not.

So why can i not expect one make the effort to prove so?

Your logic is so messed up that I'm not going to try to reason with you, please accept this.

You're making sense, but you've misunderstood. The idea is that before you even come to your logical (or illogical) conclusions and come to a decision, that decision was already made for you. You would never have made a different decision. The decision was predetermined. You being you, you would always make the same decision.

Thats where determinism comes from - everything is already determined, there's a set path. Being unable to deviate from that set path is what people mean when they say that free will doesn't exist.

So according to the "burden of proof" you're claim needs evidence, does it not?


I dont think we know what we are getting into here... take a deep breath everyone.
No, seriously.
Conscious Intent defines Free Will!

Yes, that's what I meant. Only that the decision that "was already made for me" is the only decision there's ever going to be. You don't make decisions that go against what you think is wise just because you have a free will.
It's hard to explain what I mean, but if determinism is making a rational decision based on facts and judgement, what is the opposite? There is only one kind of decision making, and there's nothing supernatural that makes your choice special.

I know it sounds like generic skepticism, my point is just that people want there to be more to their decision than there is. It's scary to think that someone could predict your future or manipulate you with that information.
Even though someone could predict your actions, you're still making that decision in the moment. For me it's scarier to think that i would make a different choice every time with the same facts, because if my actions were random, I wouldn't feel like I had any free will.