Hi everyone.

For those who don't know me (that is, everyone), I have been playing Toribash from 2006 to 2008, and came back to play it more seriously only recently, now that internet in Indonesia is actually usable.

I've been playing more than one hours everyday for something like 600 fights, since a couple of month ago.

Several things kind of surprised me when I came back to being really active, and the first one is the very little growth in the community. The server list is not really bigger than 6 years ago as is, seemingly, the amount of simultaneous players.

I really LOVE this game. I really do. But... I think some things could be modified to get some more players to join in. At least, if that's what the community wants.

The main problem, to my mind, is:

The Game Is Not Newbie Friendly

All my friends have given up. I've tried and I keep on trying. But most of the people I know are afraid of the complexity and learning curve.
This is not a problem, Toribash is not really a causal game by design. But there are other deterrents.

- Incentive

When most of the recent online games offer bonuses for even logging-in, and achievements every time you sneeze, Toribash's achievement are pretty hard to get, and the only incentive given is belts requiring an insane amount of playing to level up (I have no problem with that, though) and TC used for customization.

Suggestions

• Give a prize when belting up
• Give a prize for continuous login (n days in a row)
• Give prizes for n amount of victories
• More achievements (Hours of online play, various dismemberments, booms, win in X frame... many can be thought of)
• Make more unlockable items based on things other than IQ (can buy a color set only if you've bought another one previously, or got some achievement)

- Prices

Which bring me to my second remark...
Holly hell is this game expensive!
I paid 30$ for 2 licenses, and it's very well spent money. On the other hand, I've been wanting some new colors or maybe some textures...and oh boy don't I have to grind.

Yes there is the market, but it's still pretty expensive when you start.

Not everybody has a betting mind, or the patience to stand tourneys (when you only have one hour a day to play, a full tourney is long).

Worse, some colors have IQ limits, meaning that even if I'm ready to spend real dollars to get something I like, I can't unless I play thousands of rounds.
Also, the void color set, cash only, is worth...74$ total !?
I have never bough a full game for this price, and I don't think I'll ever will.

Suggestions

• Discount full color sets
• Discount full texture sets
• No IQ limits for cash-only texture
• Cheaper cash-only items
• Unique cash only/TC only items, but most items payable both ways

- Customization

That's the most important incentive after the fun of the game itself.
And that's where so many things could be done.

Sorry to say, but many of the colors available at the shop are ugly as hell, and the cheapest are the ugliest. Orc? Srsly?
Textures are pretty expensive, and once you have paid for the right to use them, you have to design them yourself. Using your own design should be a perk, not a standard. Some people don't even know what gimp is. Of course if you want, you can pay someone to do it, which is paying someone to get you something you paid to be able to use that's a lot of paying.

The market is terrible, full of sets containing 25 similar items and the search function barely helps.

Suggestions

• Provide a limited choice of default, official textures directly available in the shop, and give out as rewards. An in-game interface could even be thought of, in the manner of a character builder.
• Create an in-shop texture market. Where players can upload their creations and sell them for TC or real cash. NOT via the forum. It has to be easy.
• I understand it has something to do with economics and wachamacallit. As a basic player I don't really care and neither will the newbies: duplicates in sets should be forbidden.

- Interface

Once in-game, barely better than IRC.
Players have to do everything via command line, the lobby is lacking filters, and even the buddy list has to be managed via command line.

Suggestions

• A server command menu, easily accessible from the HUD
• A real buddy list, with a window, telling users if their buddies are online and in what room.
• The possibility to set password, belt range (not by IQ, by belt name), and max players from the 'create new room' dialog box.
• Not showing rooms you can't join (belt restriction, maybe optional)
• Filter bets, tourneys, official rooms (credit to dellalanri)

- Rooms, rules and waiting time

When I was still 2nd dan, I had the choice between Tourneys (not an option, too long if I want to get any action), Public rooms (could try my luck) and Quick Aikido. Now I can access Ultimate, but... I always find it empty.

So, I tried joining user created rooms, only to be repeatedly kicked.
When I create a room I have to wait an eternity for someone to join, and get requests for mods I don't want to play.
Then again, no TC in public rooms...

Then there's the problem of waiting time. I play Quick Aikido quite a lot because... well because it's quick. It's not even about the reaction time, or even the match frames, but 4 players max in a public official room is heaven. You actually get to play.

Suggestions

• Quick Judo, Wushu, Twinswords and other, with max 4 players.
• New quick rooms auto-spawn when all full
• Skirmish mode: join a random quick room

That's all I can think of right now... Keep in mind, I don't imply, by any mean, that the game sucks. I just think that some of these improvements could help getting more users and more money to the game and devs, so Toribash never dies.

Your post is awesome!
Toribash is definitely not newb friendly. Players are turned off by the lack of features common to other multiplayer games. Humble Friend lists, flexible Auction Houses, Shops where purchases are made easy, easy customization, and rewards that aren't so difficult to earn.
Textures and Mods require learning effort in order to make. You can't just easily earn TC, buy your textures, and equip them in-game. You have to earn TC's with backbreaking effort, buy the expensive items/textures (cheap items are bought and sold by richer players who sell them overpriced, 5000%+, on the marketplace), learn how to design any body part textures you bought, and activate them via inventory in either the Shop or Market section after clicking into the forums via the Toribash mainpage.
I haven't played toribash for a while now. I've been playing more minibash. There is definitely a lack of incentive. Multiplayer games commonly have daily incentives like small prizes/items. The ones that don't offer daily prizes often use in-game connections/customization as incentives (people log in to chat with, play with, or compete their levels with friends). The character customization allows people to develop an ego in-game. I don't play toribash much because obtaining a higher rank is meaningless. Players can easily get high ranks by disconnecting/spectating while they're losing without penalty. Obtaining higher belts doesn't give any worthwhile rewards. I play minibash daily because my guy can train, making it easier to defeat my opponents. In toribash, it is pure skill without advantages. A player with a high belt does not have any advantage to a newbie. Just like chess, the only progress is in skill.
In Toribash, the customization is much more difficult. TC is slow and difficult to earn, unless you pay cash. Customization is an investment of time. Connections with friends in-game are difficult. Rooms have long wait-times because players crowd certain rooms and ignore the rest. The drop-down forum buttons are so complex and multivarious that they aren't used much. The search feature in the forum doesn't work properly. Neither does viewing a friends' posts or threads. The in-game multiplayer menu option crashes for many players. They have to use the /join command or beat Uke in order to play multiplayer.
This game would be large if it were more attractive to new players.

Incentives
Due to the fucked up nature of the Toribash economy, adding more ways to get tc would do more harm than good. I do agree that there should be an increased effort to get people to play and stay within the Tb community, but as of now, tc based incentives are a no go.

Prices
I agree that prices for items are a bit ridiculous. I also agree with your suggestion to add cash-only items. Would make a lot more sense than putting a cash value on items worth virtual currency.

Customization
Yes yes yes!!!! I like the idea of default official textures. It would give players who can't be bothered to create their own textures the ability to make a nice generic set if they please. Im hoping that these generic sets would be customisable to a certain degree though (color, move some of the designs around, etc.).

Interface
Yup, the current in-game interface is bland. The command based structure of it all is also pretty archaic. I really wish the devs would consider getting the interface modernized before adding any extra features. For now though, I think hampa said redesigning the UI was low on his to-do list.

Rooms, rules and waiting time
Skirmish mode sounds like a nice idea.

I agree whole heartedly with every suggestion made, it's so hard to get tc, and without the right connections or skill a new player well be gone within the hour. I say this from asking many of my friends to try playing with me, perhaps if there were some way to even out the difficulty of playing, and tc earned?. Maybe players should be awarded tc at certain milestones of how long they've spent in-game?

i tried to invite my friends to play this game, but they all said that its hard to play, requires lot of time to get TC, and its not friendly to newbies in general

Thanks for the awesomification!
Just to say, about belts and pure skill...
That's what actually makes me play this game more than any other. I remember playing Quake3 with my buddies (LAN parties babe, I'm old), and it was the same thing: either you're good or you're not. If you're not: practice.
I find it absurd to get stronger as you play just because you play... If you go to a Dojo and learn karate, you'll get better by suffering, sweating and focusing, not by using steroids(ideally), delivering pizzas and cleaning up the dojo's basement.

Also, being skill based is more newbie friendly. When I was blue belt I would save all the MP replays where I kicked some danned belt's ass. I wouldn't be possible with speed or strength bonuses.



What do you mean by the fucked up nature of the Toribash economy? I am fully aware that I missed an episode at some point, would you mind giving me a short update? In any case, to avoid hoarding and farming, the rewards could be random. If you get, say 10 orc bits, you get an orc color or something.

Textures -> Something similar to the decals from Need For Speed maybe?

Interface-> This is weird. Some very poor game are successful because of their awesome interface (FarmVille, it suck but it's easy).
This is actually something I could help with, I don't have time to actually design it myself, but I work as a web analyst and I know a lot of people who could make a killer one for super cheap (not trying to sell stuff)



THIS!

I think it's pretty inherent to the gameplay. You need to have a special mindset or a good mentor to enjoy the game from the start.
This point brings up the GM problem. In all of my 3050 matches I have not seen a GM even once.
I know that it's a sensitive issue, GM have to be good players, involved and with the right attitude... but they could make a difference assisting newcomers. Also, maybe, some enhanced tutorials explaining momentum and balance?

Anyway guys, thanks for your support!

Creative and smart. Pretty surprising to see someone here with brain. Hampa should check this thread instead of listening to wannabe kiddos...

Honestly, for the economy thing, I'm just going off of what I've been hearing for a while. Supposedly, the value of tc has been decreasing for a while now. I don't know exactly what the driving force behind the inflation is though since I suck horribly at economics. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the introduction of the 500, 750 tourney servers are partly to blame. More tc being added to the economy. The more of something there is, the lower its value? Something like that I guess.

Decals! Exactly!

A new interface would do wonders to this game. People seem to ignore the fact that the UI of the game isn't user friendly at all. It revolves too heavily around commands and there isn't even a complete in-game command list. Hell, there were still commands that I didn't know about a couple of months ago even though I've been around for a while. If it were up to me, I would change all of the commands to buttons. Nice colorful buttons.

Inflation uh?

Well inflation in online games is normal I think, since currency is constantly created without the prices being adjusted.
Since that's where the problem lies, I think what's to blame is the possibility to buy TC.

Typically, when an in-game currency is not traded against real money, the progression curve and item price are enough to control the inflation.
Players get slowly rich, buy expensive items and the amount of currency put into the system during the player's progression goes back to the bank. This way, if prices and incomes are well balanced, the total amount of currency should grow as the game gains players (It should, or then the currency will deflate).

When you can buy currency directly from the game (not from other players), it means that currency is created and the total amount in circulation increases, thus the value decreases.

What we have here are items that are very pricey, so a massive amount of TC goes in the system every time something is bought with TC but via real money.

This is why in many newer online games you can find two different currencies, usually gold and gems: so the balance can't be broken by gold trading, while gems can be bought with real money.

Also, a better inventory management linked to a marketplace leads to an healthier in-game economy, players can actually spend their currencies instead of hoarding it, and the prices self regulate (more or less)...
Make it a list of item with a sell button and an average market price for those who wanna sell, and only display cheapest items when doing a search.

As for the interface, yes. Bring forth the shiny buttons!

Only thing i disagree with:Make more unlockable items based on things other than IQ (can buy a color set only if you've bought another one previously, or got some achievement)
What if the previous item you need to buy is too expensive or needs lots of money?
Nice suggestions,this could make more players join as you said but not many people are interested because it is an old game,people go onto new games as they are being made, only some stay behind.Like when they release handphones,so this would most make only slight differences.

~supported